New O2 + KGSS Rig

[Dusty Chalk]

How long were they warmed up when you heard them? They sound really good once they've "woken up". They may not have been fully charged. When they sound good, they should sound very resolving. IIRC (it's been several years, at this point), yes, congestion was one of the symptoms of not being fully charged. Someone with more and more recent experience should confirm or deny.

[GPH]

I confirm that charge time is very important with the O2. I haven't done any scientific measures, but I'd say it sounds good after one hour and even better after a couple of hours. With no charge time, it sounds pretty bad, congested is the right word. It lacks the space feeling and the bass simply isn't there compared to a fully woken-up pair.

Charging electrostats is not bullshit like burn-in time, I bet even a noob could tell a charged O2 from uncharged one in a blind test.

[n_maher]

At CanJam I can't say I heard anything I'd call congested out of that rig.

[guzziguy]

It may well have been the ambient noise level at the NorCal meet. Because of the speakers, which both added its own extra noise and caused conversations to be louder, the noise was much greater than normal loud meet noise.

[deepak]

It might be that he just didn't like the sound of the O2. They are very different from the Qualia. The HE60 and Koss ESP/950 sound closer to the Qualia.

And won't the O2 hold its charge for a very long time once charged (unless someone discharged them before the meet)?

[spritzer]

My SR-007's have only once needed to be charged but this is certainly tied to the humidity level and Iceland is very dry. If this was Justin's set and just came off a plane then there might have been some "electret effect" i.e. a negative charge sitting on the diaphragm impeding its movement. That would make them sound congested and shut in when they are obviously not supposed to be.

Did you try any other phones with the amp such as the Lambda Signature?

[Icarium]

I only tried the HE90 which sounded quite appealing as per usual.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by Icarium

I only tried the HE90 which sounded quite appealing as per usual.

If the He90 even came close in bass, treble extension and coherence then the phones were off their game. That being said the SR-007 is not a meet friendly headphone and you need to spend time with them to fully realize their potential.

[Voltron]

I intend to talk to Justin about his thoughts on the rig at the NorCal meet because I was duly blown away by the BHSE-->O2mk2 at CanJam but thought it did not sound right this weekend. I also heard the HE90s and 4070 on it Saturday and they did not sound good either. I am not going to put words in other people's mouths, but I was far from the only one to think it was off.

I think there was a lot of can-switching going on and the amp was opened up at one point and lots of little things, so charging of the cans could have some small part in it. I know some changes have been made to this prototype and the tubes are different, I believe, so those could factor in as well. The source is a viciously revealing animal, so one theory would be that the NWO was showing something to be "wrong" in that setup. Unfortunately I did not hear the NWO direct into cans (which is pretty awesome, btw) so I don't know if it was part of the problem, but neilvg did not suggest he was having any issues with it. Also, it was a meet and you cannot get great listening done with electrostats in those conditions. (Unlike guzzi, however, I don't think the speakers playing at barely audible levels at times and not at all at other times really had an impact because the meet room did not seem that loud.)

All I know is that the sound never seemed close to the CanJam version, and it was disappointing. I was hoping that Justin would get yet another well-deserved boost out of this meet, but the Picos are the only HeadAmps getting lots of props (as well they should). Curious what was going on.

[hirsch]

Originally Posted by spritzer

If the He90 even came close in bass, treble extension and coherence then the phones were off their game. That being said the SR-007 is not a meet friendly headphone and you need to spend time with them to fully realize their potential.

YMMV. I've never heard an Omega II that could approach the HE90 in bass and treble extension. I did hear a hump in the bass of the OII that simulated bass response, but the HE90 was the one that went deep, and had the real bass. I think the OII presented a tighter image than the HE90 at one point, but a modification to the ES1 erased that difference. With my current amp configuration, the HE90 is sufficiently more to my taste that I couldn't think of a reason I'd listen to the OII, so I wound up selling it. OII fell further behind using the Stax amps I had on hand (007t and T1S, IIRC). If the OII could approach the HE90 in terms of overall sound quality it would have saved me a lot of money, but it didn't go that way.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by hirsch

YMMV. I've never heard an Omega II that could approach the HE90 in bass and treble extension. I did hear a hump in the bass of the OII that simulated bass response, but the HE90 was the one that went deep, and had the real bass. I think the OII presented a tighter image than the HE90 at one point, but a modification to the ES1 erased that difference. With my current amp configuration, the HE90 is sufficiently more to my taste that I couldn't think of a reason I'd listen to the OII, so I wound up selling it. OII fell further behind using the Stax amps I had on hand (007t and T1S, IIRC). If the OII could approach the HE90 in terms of overall sound quality it would have saved me a lot of money, but it didn't go that way.

This the complete opposite to my experience with two different HE90's with a lot of different amps. They do "boom, boom" bass pretty well i.e. can be like a dynamic headphone but any deep and complicated bass and they simply flat out refuse to play it. Add the SR-Omega to the mix (a reputed bass headphone) and the SR-007 goes deeper and is more controlled at high volume but otherwise they are pretty similar. Now that I've bought a SR-Omega/SR-007 hybrid it will be interesting to see how it sounds in comparison to the other models.

[Icarium]

Oh also his unit was a mark 2 not a mark 1 O2.

[aaron313]

Honestly, it was near impossible to get a good handle on what I was hearing out of the BHSE rig. I mean, I really enjoyed it, and could tell that it was special, but the ambient noise somewhat killed the experience. Filburt and I did about 45min of comparisons between his modded DAC and Neil's source, and it was very difficult to discern the differences. Honestly, the only thing that stood out was the the NWO was less restrained, yet simultaneously moved the sounds inward a bit. But then again, it was difficult to match the levels, so who knows what I was hearing. I would think that in a quiet room the differences would have been obvious... right?

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by aaron313

Honestly, it was near impossible to get a good handle on what I was hearing out of the BHSE rig. I mean, I really enjoyed it, and could tell that it was special, but the ambient noise somewhat killed the experience. Filburt and I did about 45min of comparisons between his modded DAC and Neil's source, and it was very difficult to discern the differences. Honestly, the only thing that stood out was the the NWO was less restrained, yet simultaneously moved the sounds inward a bit. But then again, it was difficult to match the levels, so who knows what I was hearing. I would think that in a quiet room the differences would have been obvious... right?

I don't think it was possible to get a good handle on that comparison, because when I was doing the same thing with Neil it was difficult to tell what was happening with the sound at all. The output was so much higher on Filburt's DAC that the fluctuation in level was all that you could hear. I don't know what kind of magic Filburt did to that DAC or even what DAC it is in the first place, but the NWO topped by EMM Labs SE stack in side-by-side comparisons so I gotta believe that the differences would be VERY noticeable in the proper setting.

[aaron313]

Originally Posted by Voltron

I don't think it was possible to get a good handle on that comparison, because when I was doing the same thing with Neil it was difficult to tell what was happening with the sound at all. The output was so much higher on Filburt's DAC that the fluctuation in level was all that you could hear. I don't know what kind of magic Filburt did to that DAC or even what DAC it is in the first place, but the NWO topped by EMM Labs SE stack in side-by-side comparisons so I gotta believe that the differences would be VERY noticeable in the proper setting.

Yes, when we switched, the sound went from "deafening" to "aaaahhh."

[Icarium]

Filburt's dac was some sort of Assemblage DAC modded by himself.

[aaron313]

Originally Posted by Icarium

Filburt's dac was some sort of Assemblage DAC modded by himself.

That was the one we used, and he had a modded transdac, too. For $500, it sounded just ridiculously good.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by Icarium

Oh also his unit was a mark 2 not a mark 1 O2.

The main difference between the two units is the slightly more forward sound of the Mk2 which also has a major (in Stax terms) midbass hump and less bass extension.

[Elephas]

Originally Posted by Icarium

Oh also his unit was a mark 2 not a mark 1 O2.

Somebody send Justin an O2Mk1, quick, to to develop the BHSE with. And an SR-Omega, 4070, HE90 and HE60.

Tubes, too. I don't have a lot of tube experience, but the current production tubes I've tried all sounded bad compared to old stock tubes. Someone needs to send Justin some EL34 xf1 and xf2, Telefunken with five crimped plate, Philips metal-base and some Sylvania Fat Boys.

[Elephas]

Originally Posted by spritzer

The main difference between the two units is the slightly more forward sound of the Mk2 which also has a major (in Stax terms) midbass hump and less bass extension.

Not IME.

The Mk2's midbass is stronger than the Mk1's, but it can be a good thing. For example, there are some tracks I've tried where some background instruments are less audible than the Mk2. In those cases, I thought the Mk2 presented a more balanced tonality and made the bass instruments sound more integrated and balanced with the other instruments and the vocals. With the Mk1, I couldn't hear those instruments as clearly.