The Headcase Stax thread

[luvdunhill]

Originally Posted by purk

I think you are mistaken my point. The Lambda Pro sounds darn good out of my ES-1 and that is one of the reason I kept the Lambda pro as the back up to my HE90 and sold the HE-60. The lambda pro out of stax amps might sound bad but out of my ES-1, it sounds amazing. I talked to Hirsch and number of people about the ES-1+Lambda Pro and we share simlar finding. Also many people who attended last year Florida meet were pretty impressed by the Lambda Pro out of the Woo GES as well. Mulveling and Tom stopped by at my place and they love the sound of the Lambda pro out of my ES-1 as well.

no, I understood your point. So you favor a synergistic combo over a lousy combo. I just don't see value in these types of comparisons. If you were comparing a combo that you personally find synergistic to another combo that a majority of people find synergistic, that would be one thing. I find syllogistic comparisons kinda annoying and they are often used in straw man arguments.

[I hope I got that one right Dusty, feel free to correct and post that cute fighting kitty again ]

[purk]

Originally Posted by luvdunhill

no, I understood your point. So you favor a synergistic combo over a lousy combo. I just don't see value in these types of comparisons. If you were comparing a combo that you personally find synergistic to another combo that a majority of people find synergistic, that would be one thing. I find syllogistic comparisons kinda annoying and they are often used in straw man arguments.

[I hope I got that one right Dusty, feel free to correct and post that cute fighting kitty again ]

My point is I never thought of the Stax Lambda pro as a bad sounding headphones and I take it over OII out of the KGSS. Heck, I even take my SDS + L3000 over the OII out of the KGSS anyday. Its not about the synergistic, but the Pro always sound good to my ears even out of the HEV70 amp.

[spritzer]

If you are comparing the headphone on an amp like the ES-1 or the GES you will always get a rose tinted view of the world compared to the brutal honesty of a good DC amp. Now whether you like the sound or not is a whole other issue but this something that is often overlooked as most users have no idea how an amp works and what the differences are.

[luvdunhill]

Originally Posted by purk

My point is I never thought of the Stax Lambda pro as a bad sounding headphones and I take it over OII out of the KGSS. Heck, I even take my SDS + L3000 over the OII out of the KGSS anyday. Its not about the synergistic, but the Pro always sound good to my ears even out of the HEV70 amp.

sorry, it is about synergism. If not, they why not say that you like the Pro better than the OII unequivocally? I'd be fine with that statement.

[hirsch]

Originally Posted by spritzer

If you are comparing the headphone on an amp like the ES-1 or the GES you will always get a rose tinted view of the world compared to the brutal honesty of a good DC amp. Now whether you like the sound or not is a whole other issue but this something that is often overlooked as most users have no idea how an amp works and what the differences are.

Umm, I hate to burst your bubble, but there are no output capacitors on an ES1, It is in fact directly coupled to the headphone so you might not want to push this argument too far. The ES1 is a far more transparent amp than the KGSS or KGBH, and yes, I've heard all of them with the HE90. Of the three, the BH had a warmish coloration lacking in the KGSS, but beyond that had very little to say that the KGSS didn't. I'm also sure that the designs have evolved, and that I haven't heard the latest iterations. Then again, I haven't heard the ES2 either. I try to only speak about the sonics of gear that I've heard, and my sig file is very deliberate mockery of posts like yours, where you have never heard the product, and apparently know little about the design either, but seem to feel a need to say something anyway.

[purk]

Originally Posted by spritzer

If you are comparing the headphone on an amp like the ES-1 or the GES you will always get a rose tinted view of the world compared to the brutal honesty of a good DC amp. Now whether you like the sound or not is a whole other issue but this something that is often overlooked as most users have no idea how an amp works and what the differences are.

Birgir,

I'm not sure what to say really, but we all have preference. You will always prefer the sound of the OII+KGBH SE over the HE90 with any amp, while I might prefer the HE90+ES-1/HEV-90 over the OII + any amp. I plan to get the OII one day to use with my ES-1 but I might still not be good enough unless I get the KGBH to use with the OII, according to what you have been saying. Nothing is absolute and I was only offer my view that the Lambda Pro is a very good headphones and I know number of people who love them and I happen to like the sound of the my Lambda Pro + ES-1 over the OII + KGSS.

sorry, it is about synergism. If not, they why not say that you like the Pro better than the OII unequivocally? I'd be fine with that statement.

Don't worry about it. I wish I explained myself better. It is difficult to work and post at the same time.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by hirsch

Umm, I hate to burst your bubble, but there are no output capacitors on an ES1, It is in fact directly coupled to the headphone so you might not want to push this argument too far. The ES1 is a far more transparent amp than the KGSS or KGBH, and yes, I've heard all of them with the HE90. Of the three, the BH had a warmish coloration lacking in the KGSS, but beyond that had very little to say that the KGSS didn't. I'm also sure that the designs have evolved, and that I haven't heard the latest iterations. Then again, I haven't heard the ES2 either. I try to only speak about the sonics of gear that I've heard, and my sig file is very deliberate mockery of posts like yours, where you have never heard the product, and apparently know little about the design either, but seem to feel a need to say something anyway.

I never said that there were any output caps in the ES1 but two of the three stages are capacitor coupled. I have a sneaking feeling that you paid some extortionate amount for AN silver caps for just that duty. All capacitor coupled amps are colored by the caps no matter how good they are and the ES1 is no exception.

Originally Posted by purk

Birgir,

I'm not sure what to say really, but we all have preference. You will always prefer the sound of the OII+KGBH SE over the HE90 with any amp, while I might prefer the HE90+ES-1/HEV-90 over the OII + any amp. I plan to get the OII one day to use with my ES-1 but I might still not be good enough unless I get the KGBH to use with the OII, according to what you have been saying. Nothing is absolute and I was only offer my view that the Lambda Pro is a very good headphones and I know number of people who love them and I happen to like the sound of the my Lambda Pro + ES-1 over the OII + KGSS.

The stock BH is far from good enough to work for the SR-007 but it is a brilliant match to the less demanding SR-?. The BHSE should be a good upgrade but so far unknown as to how much. I would try to find an SR-? instead of the SR-007 as the sound would be much more pleasant to you. They are a real upgrade from the HE90 with a tighter, more controlled bass, better defined soundstage and less upper midrange glare though there is still some.

[deepak]

I thought the KGSS/OII was far from a relaxed sound. However they did sound sort of average out of the old Stax SS amp (717?). I am the anti-relaxed sound type

And I thought the KGSS did a hell of a nice job driving them as well. Getting the right fit is a bit of a chore.

[n_maher]

I think like everything else there are no universal truths in headphones and when some folks insist on stating their opinions as fact (as has been done repeatedly in this thread) it doesn't help any. Example, I've heard the HE60s driven by a KGSS, sounded fricken great to my ears. But then again I though the same thing about the HE60s driven by a T-Amp through a Stax transformer box so maybe my ears just suck? Or maybe I don't have a definition of what the perfect "sound" is and therefore I am able to enjoy a wider variety of headphones because I'm not comparing them to any sort of expected ideal.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by deepak

I thought the KGSS/OII was far from a relaxed sound. However they did sound sort of average out of the old Stax SS amp (717?). I am the anti-relaxed sound type

And I thought the KGSS did a hell of a nice job driving them as well. Getting the right fit is a bit of a chore.

I also hate the relaxed type of sound. Blasting Megadeth and Iron Maiden is more of my thing

Originally Posted by n_maher

I think like everything else there are no universal truths in headphones and when some folks insist on stating their opinions as fact (as has been done repeatedly in this thread) it doesn't help any. Example, I've heard the HE60s driven by a KGSS, sounded fricken great to my ears. But then again I though the same thing about the HE60s driven by a T-Amp through a Stax transformer box so maybe my ears just suck? Or maybe I don't have a definition of what the perfect "sound" is and therefore I am able to enjoy a wider variety of headphones because I'm not comparing them to any sort of expected ideal.

They all sound great but we are insane and arguing about small details... I think I need to hook up the old PS1 to a SRA-3S and get back to the basics...

[Smeggy]

Originally Posted by n_maher

I think like everything else there are no universal truths in headphones and when some folks insist on stating their opinions as fact (as has been done repeatedly in this thread) it doesn't help any. Example, I've heard the HE60s driven by a KGSS, sounded fricken great to my ears. But then again I though the same thing about the HE60s driven by a T-Amp through a Stax transformer box so maybe my ears just suck? Or maybe I don't have a definition of what the perfect "sound" is and therefore I am able to enjoy a wider variety of headphones because I'm not comparing them to any sort of expected ideal.

X2. I don't have any kind of ideal in mind and seem very happy with my sounds wherever they are from. I have definite preferences but I don't let that interfere with enjoying my cans no matter the amp/transformer. As long as they're driven well I'm happy as a clam.

[kevin gilmore]

Hirsch back to being the biggest Singlepower shill again, acting like the Wizard
in the Wizard of oz trying to distract the audience with bullshit. Same thing as
sacdlover recently trying to convince people that the extreme and the woo audio
are completely different when they are exactly the same.

See people hear one thing and then try it apply it to something completely different.

With tube OTL amplifers DESIGNED FOR DYNAMIC HEADPHONES, (every one of them except
for mine) you need output capacitors. Because of the impedance of those DYNAMIC headphones
the ratings on those caps have to be something in the range of AT LEAST 200 microfarads.
To make a really good cap (ala the audio note caps) that value with silver foil and teflon
would end up with something the size of a large garbage can. And don't even ask how
much it would cost, as no one would ever build such a thing.

FOR ELECTROSTATIC AMPLIFIERS designed for ELECTROSTATIC HEADPHONES the numbers
are completely different. Omega2 headphones are a 170 kohm load at 10khz. An output
capacitor of .1uf is absolutely plenty for a frequency response absolutely flat between
20hz and 20khz. You can make (and in fact buy) really good audio note caps that value.
You will still not like the price.

Comparing an ES1 with or without OUTPUT capacitors to an equivalent OTL dynamic
heaphone amp is without any meaning.

No the ES1 does not have any OUTPUT capacitors. It certainly does have coupling
caps at the input of the OUTPUT stage. How good those caps are depends on how
much money you want to spend. I'm sure mikhail will even use the gold foil caps if
you throw enough money at him.

Yes the best amplifier in this case would be all tubes, and completely DC coupled input
to output. It is very expensive to do it this way, lots of extra parts, and lots of power
supply voltages. If you are completely whacked you can even do the whole thing
(all 3 stages) with DHT's.

Mikhail has made a good business out of selling ES2's at $15k to $20k. I wish him continued
success, and i'm sure that the limited number of customers at that pricing level are absolutely
thrilled with the result.

[spritzer]

We can talk about that all DHT amp when I'm done building the next BH...

On a side note... the SR-Sigma Pro 404. I've said that this was a good headphone but I hadn't used it with the BH until today and all I can say is wow! Who knew that a Sigma could be this good and output enough treble and bass in the process. There are still some colorations from the box but they can be minimized by using a better glue so now it's down to a small thickening of the lower midrange and light reverb effect to the vocal area. It's certainly a welcome change from the bass bloat of the earlier models and the shut in sound. The Sigma Pro was always a bit of a disappointment for me as it simply traded the musicality of the normal bias model for a thinner sound that was nothing special except a bit more output at both the HF and LF. With the 404 drivers there is a tight and controlled sound stage which lacks the depth of a Sr-007 but puts the Lambdas to shame. The treble is still a bit rolled off when compared to other, less strange designs so cymbals lack the last bit of sparkle and guitars are a bit subdued but compared to the other models it is no contest. The midrange was always the selling point of the Sigma range and it is no exception here. It's a bit larger then life but that's why I like the Sigmas. The bass is tight... real tight with only the hint of a slight boom. It is a bit spotty though with a few irregularities here and there in the response and the housings soaks up too much of the energy for its own good but it is a welcome change.

[philodox]

Originally Posted by kevin gilmore

With tube OTL amplifers DESIGNED FOR DYNAMIC HEADPHONES, (every one of them except
for mine) you need output capacitors. Because of the impedance of those DYNAMIC headphones
the ratings on those caps have to be something in the range of AT LEAST 200 microfarads.
To make a really good cap (ala the audio note caps) that value with silver foil and teflon
would end up with something the size of a large garbage can. And don't even ask how
much it would cost, as no one would ever build such a thing.

And with balanced amps that value doubles, right?

It's weird, my amp only has four 50 microfarad caps [one for each channel], and it sounds great with the K340s. Even with the Grado RS-1's it sounds very good, though the bass could use being tightened up a bit. That might just be the flat pads I am using now though. I need to get a pair of bowls and do a comparison.

[catscratch]

"Relaxed sound" is exactly why I didn't pick up the SR-007 yet. I really do need to hear it on a variety of amps, but since a) I can't stand solid state, b) I like an aggressive but full sound, and c) I don't have bottomless pockets, I don't think I can drive the O2 properly. Just about the only thing I can do for it is get a transformer box and use my 18WPC Dareds, and hope it will be enough.

It's a bloody shame, since I do miss the planar sound, but I just don't see any options that can outperform my current rig - save maybe for the EH-1.2B, but I think I'll wait until the FOTM dies down on these. My rig trashes the SR-404 on so many fronts that whatever I get will have to be in a different universe sonically, and it's one hell of a leap of faith to shell out on an unknown quantity which may not be better... or a known quantity which I probably can't drive to the proper level.

[spritzer]

I would wait for the 1.2b FOTM to die down to get some solid feedback. You also have to read between the lines as owners ofter refrain from posting negative comments from the fear of getting mauled by the other owners. It's not pretty to be on the receiving end of that...

There is one "budget" option for driving the SR-007 that I'm going to look into but it will be DIY unfortunately. That is to use the massive transformers from a Koss E/10 (the adapter for the ESP10) and hook it up to a 580v bias supply. They are about 4 times as large as the Stax transformers so the necessary current should make it through.

[luvdunhill]

Originally Posted by n_maher

I think like everything else there are no universal truths in headphones and when some folks insist on stating their opinions as fact

if you're referring to me, then I would like to set the record straight in that I whole heartedly agree with the above statement. Heck, if purk prefers the Pro to the SR-007, that's great.

My first tongue in cheek comment really sums up how I feel about such comparisons though.

[catscratch]

I was thinking along similar lines, not in that I have any kind of DIY skill whatsoever or know my ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to amps, but what if I could find some DIYer to simply build an upgraded transformer box for the SR-007 the sole purpose of which would be to give it the juice it needs, and then use a speaker amp? I doubt that would be any more expensive that any of the other less-than-ideal options in my price range. If this setup is a bit less transparent than a BH or any seriously solid 'stat amp, then so be it; I'm more worried about waking up the SR-007 than maximizing its resolving power.

[n_maher]

Originally Posted by luvdunhill

if you're referring to me, then I would like to set the record straight in that I whole heartedly agree with the above statement. Heck, if purk prefers the Pro to the SR-007, that's great.

My first tongue in cheek comment really sums up how I feel about such comparisons though.

No, not you specifically. More to the general tone of some who absolutely slam some stats routinely and make "pffft" noises at anyone who likes them. I just didn't want to see the thread go any further down that road so I tried to make light of it a little bit. Heck, I don't even have a vested interested in this thread (NO STATS!!!) but I still enjoy reading about stuff I may one day own.

[kevin gilmore]

Originally Posted by philodox

And with balanced amps that value doubles, right?

It's weird, my amp only has four 50 microfarad caps [one for each channel], and it sounds great with the K340s.

You are not an idiot, and i believe you know how to use a calculator.

f = 1 / (2 * pi * r * c) (3db point)

So for 300 ohm headphones

f = about 11hz with 50uf

want the same thing with 32 ohms headphones, guess how much