Avantgarde Duo and Audioengine A5 listening tests

[EdipisReks]

this morning i went with a friend to audition the Avantgarde Duos. he's new to the audiophile world, but has plenty of money and thinks the "Duos" look neat. since he doesn't have any gear, i took my Capitole with me. the amps used with the Duos were the Cary CAD 805 Anniversary Edition mono blocks with the Sophia mesh plate 300Bs and new make Tung-Sol 6SN7s (not sure what the other tubes were). i would have brought the last of my NOS 6SN7s if i had known for sure what amps were being used, but i think the Tung-Sols were probably sufficient. cabling was all Cardas. the CD player hooked up was the Cary 303/300, which we initially used, and the preamp was the Cary 306 (can you tell this place really pushs Cary?). they also had a McIntosh MCD201, but we didn't bother with it. the room was largish, rectangular, with what looked like good sound treatment. the clap-your-hands test showed that the room was just slightly live. music ranged from NIN to Chanticleer.

initial impressions

Pluses:
broad soundstage
smooth treble
deep bass
liquid midrange
good but not great detail

Minuses:
small suckout between the bass and the midrange
shallow soundstage
lack of sparkle on the soundstage

after the initial listening session, we swapped out the Cary CD player for my Capitole, with the volume set to 7, and the dealer fiddled with speaker positioning and the settings on the sub. after this, the suckout in the low midrange was fixed, but the shallow soundstage and the lack of treble sparkle were still there. the bass was still just as deep, but my Capitole is bassier than the Cary, which made the system a bit too bassy for my tastes, with a bit too much bloom. detail level was nice, but it wasn't the microscopic detail level that i get with my Thiels. the duos definitely seemed to be less transparent, definitely imposing their own sound on the music.

overall, the Duos were very good, but not really my cup of tea. i think that, when you get down to it, i simply prefer a different approach to speakers. i haven't heard a horn system that i really adore, though the Duos are definitely the best horns i've heard. the lack of treble sparkle (not to be confused with sibilance and brightness) bothered me, as did the lack of depth to the soundstage. the Duos produced an even broader soundstage than my Thiels, but i didn't get the layering on complex albums, like St. Vincent's Marry Me, that i do with my Thiels. the midrange was definitely pretty magical on the Duos, i can see why people like them so much, but the magic midrange comes at the expense of the speakers imposing their own sound.

the Duos seem to need some work to really position them properly, and the doodads on the back of the sub mean that there is lots of room for fiddling, so i'm not sure that i was getting the best out of the speakers. still, this is pretty much the case with all short speaker auditions. one things for sure, though, i wouldn't mind having one of those Cary 306 preamps, it was really good. my friend liked the Duos a lot, but he's going to audition the Thiel 3.7s, the B&W 802D, and the Martin-Logan Summit before he makes his decision.

ok, on to the Audioengines. this was in a small room, a little more live than the main room. minimal room treatments, but the room was still not too live. we ran them off my Capitole. they were mounted on speaker stands, about 6 feet apart, all Cardas cabling. the A5s are pretty good! better than other small speakers i've heard. smooth treble, nice midrange, pretty detailed. not the widest or deepest soundstage, and the bass, while nice and chunky in the upper reaches, wasn't super dooper deep. of course, Audioengine sells a sub, if you need more/deeper bass. the speakers are put together well and look really nice. i would love to hear them with a really nice separate amp, but the fact that they are powered makes them easy to use. if you are planning on using them with stands, in a traditional configuration, i would suggest getting some shielded interconnect cables, as you'll need a pretty long run. all in all, a great deal for $300 or so bucks.

well, thanks for reading.

[guzziguy]

How long had the Duos been burned in?

[EdipisReks]

since the late Precambrian.

[laxx]

after the initial listening session, we swapped out the Cary CD player for my Capitole, with the volume set to 7, and the dealer fiddled with speaker positioning and the settings on the sub. after this, the suckout in the low midrange was fixed, but the shallow soundstage and the lack of treble sparkle were still there. the bass was still just as deep, but my Capitole is bassier than the Cary, which made the system a bit too bassy for my tastes, with a bit too much bloom. detail level was nice, but it wasn't the microscopic detail level that i get with my Thiels. the duos definitely seemed to be less transparent, definitely imposing their own sound on the music.

If the Duo's were too bassy with the Capitole, why not play with the settings on the sub?

[EdipisReks]

because we had limited time in the listening room. the dealer fiddled with the doodads in order to get rid of that midrange suckout, more than anything else.

[Augsburger]

Thanks for the impressions. Your review kind of mirrors my experience with the Duos last year and you put it into words far better than I can. Our source was the Esoteric X-03 powered by an Almarro amp. I blamed the midrange and bass shortfalls on the Almarro being underpowered. All and all though the setup was very nice but not spectacular.

[EdipisReks]

yeah, nice but not amazing, definitely, though i would like the opportunity to really tweak a pair at home.

[deepak]

IMO the Duos really need top notch amps to shine. That Cary amp really doesn't look that great (all 6SN7/300b driver amps were really over rated). I've heard the Duos in a few dealer setups where I would walked away probably less impressed than you were.

I really don't think the Duos impart their own sound in my friend's system. Maybe his vinyl source, or his Naim CDP might have but, still don't think it's the speakers.

I guess we do prefer different presentations, I've heard the Thiels again they're still too bright, with steely treble. The lack of treble bloom in the Duos is something I liked when I spent an entire day with them. And in his massive room, there wasn't any lack of depth to the soundstage.

[kpeezy]

Cool review.. Glad to hear those Audioengines sound good. They could be great once I move back out for college.

[EdipisReks]

I guess we do prefer different presentations, I've heard the Thiels again they're still too bright, with steely treble. The lack of treble bloom in the Duos is something I liked when I spent an entire day with them. And in his massive room, there wasn't any lack of depth to the soundstage.

my guess is that both dealer setups we've heard are less than optimal for the speakers.

[Nenso]

Those horns are pretty unique looking to me. Thanks for the review, I guess this makes my decision to purchase the A5s final but I have a question. Does the bamboo/normal chassis have a difference? The bamboo one costs more but has the same specs I believe.

Anyways,the over $10k+ speakers are out of my budget range at the moment but nevertheless it was a nice review..

[EdipisReks]

thanks. no idea if the bamboo ones are different, the ones i heard were white.

[tyrion]

IMO the Duos really need top notch amps to shine. That Cary amp really doesn't look that great (all 6SN7/300b driver amps were really over rated).

I've heard the CAD 211 AD a bunch of times with System-Audio speakers (main speaker my dealer sells) and they are pretty spectacular, imo. Whether they are worth $15,000 or so they retail for is another story but I enjoyed them everytime I've heard them. It was all Cary gear other than the speakers. They will likely be at CanJam in the Let There Be Sound room, in case anyone is going to join us.

[aerius]

I have a pretty low opinion of Cary's amps, they sound pleasing to most lovers of "tube sound" but I find them quite lacking in detail & resolution, plus they always put their syrupy signature into the sound and it can't be tube-rolled away since it's the way the transformers and circuits are voiced. If I wanted to blow $15k on a production tube amp I'm going for the Artemis Labs SP-1.

[EdipisReks]

i admit to being disappointed that all the appropriate amps they had were Cary.

[aerius]

i admit to being disappointed that all the appropriate amps they had were Cary.

Unfortunately, not every audio shop will have a product lineup that's this good...

[EdipisReks]

yeah, i know, that place looks awesome.

[tyrion]

That is quite a lineup of gear. Oz's shop is small and can't stock that many lines unfortunately.

I'm not sure I'd spend $15,000 on an amp, production or not but I do enjoy the CAD 211 AE. I am picking up a SLI-80 tomorrow. I haven't heard any of the Artemis electronics. If I make it to RMAF this year I will look to check it out.

[EdipisReks]

i've heard the SLI-80 as a headphone amp; it was pretty good with Grados. very warm, romantic sound.

[deepak]

I've heard the CAD 211 AD a bunch of times with System-Audio speakers (main speaker my dealer sells) and they are pretty spectacular, imo. Whether they are worth $15,000 or so they retail for is another story but I enjoyed them everytime I've heard them. It was all Cary gear other than the speakers. They will likely be at CanJam in the Let There Be Sound room, in case anyone is going to join us.

I haven't heard those anniversary amps but the Cary amps I have heard with the Duos weren't doing them any favors. But then again dealers (and people that were listening to them with me) liked that over dampened sound and thought the Duos need taming. I prefer the amps my friend is using, they're incredibly transparent with the WE tubes, almost SS like but with a sweet midrange, holographic soundstage and tolerable high end.

If someone really loves the 6sn7/300b very tubey sound the Art Audio amps weren't completely unlistenable.