catscratch
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Posts posted by catscratch
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I'm warming up to the 717 as well. The lack of fluidity and grain in the sound is definitely from the source. Once that's changed, then there will probably be little to nitpick about. Areas for improvement, sure, but very little that's outright wrong. Which will make a first...
In fact, the O2 Mk1 pretty much stops my search for headphones. I don't lust after the HE90 anymore. I don't really care to keep up to date with what else is out there, unless it gives the O2 Mk1 a run for its money. Just about the only conceivable (and likely) headphone purchase in the future would be the UE11, or whatever TOTL custom is out at the time.
The modded SR-001 is surprisingly good and more than adequate as a transportable system, so I'm set on that front, too. I'll have to hear the ESP950 to see if I want it.
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I don't want it diplomatic, I want it right between the eyes. I'm one heck of a lot less diplomatic IRL than online, which makes me... just about the complete opposite of 99.9% of the population. I tell the truth, and usually that gets me into trouble. Oh well...
I'll post high rez pics in a few days, but you'd better hold onto your lunch. It ain't pretty.
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When I listened there, Dared made things sound pretty damn bright, with lots of heat going on in the midrange and up...for me that just tensed me too much, i'll take somewhat softened treble over the heat when listening alot.
Eh, I think you've been listening to the SR-005 too much. Compared to that, sure, the O2/Dared is bright. But compared to something more neutral, not really.
The O2/717 is much closer to the tonality of the SR-003. With the SRD-7/Dared, it's closer to a K340, but still not quite as bright. You'll probably like the O2/717 sound a lot.
That could most certainly be it. The SR-007 takes no prisoners when it comes to sources and cables so the Dared could be glossing over things which the SRD-7 does even more of. Capacitors in the signal path and transformers stepping down and up again will sound very different to a DC coupled SS amp.I wouldn't use the word "could" since that's certainly it. But, when I listen to my rig, I don't want to hear how shit my source is. I just want to relax and enjoy the music. I know how shit my source is, I've been using it for over 3 years.
The 717 will stay until I get a new source, that's for damn sure. Then, we'll see what's what.
Great comparison and a tube head will always be a tube head...
You are how ever in a bit of a pickle though there are a couple more options plus those that you listed, the new amp that Woo will release soon (which I know nothing about) and a better transformer box. Fixing the McAlister would be my first step though so what's wrong with it?My first guess would be: a lot. I haven't powered the damn thing up in a while, but it basically clips during dynamic passages. Any time you get something that hits hard, like a peak in an orchestral recording or a serious bassline in electronic music, you get clipping. I'm going to check it again with the SR-003 (and so help me, the SR-007) and see what's what. It was doing that from the start.
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Initial impressions RE SRM-717 vs SRD-7 Pro/Dared VP-20:
Well, this is a surprise.
Several things jump out immediately. First, the bass is definitely tighter with the 717. I guess it's the extra added power. With the SRD-7/Dared, the bass has all the volume of the 717, all the depth of the 717, and all of the tonal clarity of the 717, but it's fuzzier, doesn't have the snap, and doesn't have the definition. There's more of a diffuse bass cloud than a precisely localized bassline. With the 717, the bass is definitely better defined. Not any tonally cleaner, really, but quicker, punchier, and snappier, with more authority.
Second, the highs are - surprise - more upfront and more detailed with the SRD-7/Dared. I really thought the 717 would do better here, but no cigar. The 717's highs are somewhat metallic and dry compared to the SRD-7/Dared, and are definitely more recessed (though not any less extended). If anything, the SRD-7/Dared is a bit on the bright side, while the 717 is definitely somewhat on the dark side.
Dynamic range is definitely better on the 717. The SRD-7/Dared combo is definitely not lacking in dynamic range, but with the 717, there is a noticeable visceral punch. With the SRD-7/Dared, there is only an absence of the typical electrostatic lack of punch. It's not annoying, but it doesn't woo you with its dynamic power.
Soundstage is wider and more airy on the SRD-7/Dared. Imaging isn't any less defined - there is just a certain tubey air and space around each instrument which the 717 totally lacks. The 717 does feel more congested in comparison.
But the biggest difference, and one I've been procrastinating to say the most, is in the midrange. The SRD-7/Dared has a very tubey, lush approach to rendering the midrange that nevertheless doesn't warm up midrange tone. It isn't cold, it's just about neutral with very lifelike tone, but there is also this wonderful liquid character to it. With the 717, the midrange is a bit warmer, but it's also completely dry. There is no liquid character to it at all.
Now, I'm making it sound like the SRD-7/Dared midrange is like sex with Keira Knightley, while the 717 is like getting your ears raped with a sandpaper condom. It's nothing of the sort. It's just a difference between a very tubey presentation and a typical solid-state presentation.
But, it's still a deal-breaker for me. If anything, the 717 confirms what I already knew - I'm a tube man through and through.
With the SRD-7/Dared, there is just this lush tube magic to the system that makes me completely relax, let my guard down, and ease into the music. I could wax poetic about every detail and nuance of its presentation, but I just don't care to do it after even a short time listening. I'm too busy enjoying the music. With the 717, I'm aware at all times that something is lacking. Even if the sound is technically better, and even if there is more punch - I just can't relax and let go. My initial impression is "... it's nice" and then in 15 minutes I want to turn it off. With the SRD-7/Dared, the sound is so fluid and musical I can listen all day, except that my head wants to explode after two hours from the sheer level of awesome.
So, the 717 will not stay, even if it is technically better than the SRD-7/Dared combo.
But, it will stay until I get a better source. Some of the dryness could come from the Rega, and it definitely doesn't have enough resolution for the O2 with either setup. Also, the 717 is balanced, and a balanced source could definitely change things.
I see the following options in my future:
1) Keep the SRD-7/Dared. My wallet likes this option, and my ears certainly could live with it, but there's a catch: the SRD-7 is not mine. So, I'll need to get another one when MaloS wants his shiny transformer box back.
2) Fix that McAlister heap of junk already. The amp is built like shit, arrived damaged (or maybe something is wrong with the circuit somewhere), and hasn't been of any more use other than a perpetual reminder of what build quality should NOT look like. But, it does have the sonic potential. If it didn't, I'd have myself a nice McAlister bonfire, with me and company dancing around the flames like wild Injuins (racist humor). I really, really don't fancy dealing with Peter again, but if I do get the amp up and running well (or swap it for another one that works), I will be happy. The amp really can sound good.
3). Build a Blue Hawaii. This will happen eventually, but to do so I have to a) have money,
learn a new skill, and c) not kill myself in the process. Altogether unlikely, but hey, I've had worse odds in the past.Still, these are initial impressions. I reserve the right to completely change my mind at a later point in time. In fact, I may downright bitchslap myself.
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Several fuses later, 717 is up and running! Impressions to come.
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Nice! This is good news for those who can't get a Mk1, or for when its price inevitably shoots up.
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K340 bass-light will work from a sonic point of view, but it needs a stationary amp. So, for out and about, it's not going to work. There are variances in SQ from pair to pair, and you'll have to match stationary amp to how your pair sounds... it's a bit of a PITA, but I've yet to hear a headphone with such incredible price to performance ratio. I had a pair that, out of a $200 tube amp, blew away the SR-404/SRM-007t combo, though admittedly that's easier than it sounds.
Don't discredit the HD600, properly driven it's a beast. But, I don't have to preach, sooner or later everybody converts to the dark side.
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I hate the SR-404 so much. Koss ESP/950 system >>>>> that shit.
Lol. I wouldn't use the word "hate" but I don't like it very much either. That midrange just completely ruins whatever else the cans do well... I can't believe I had the patience to live with them for over a year, and try time and again to turn them into something presentable.
Too bad, because if the midrange was linear, they really would be very good.
I second not getting a 404 if at all possible. Just get the amp, get your Koss, and get them reterminated to a Stax plug. And up the bias voltage on the amp if possible.
I'm thinking of picking up an ESP950 to play with, if only because that horrid E-90 box is mobile (and because of the possibility of other potential mobile ways to drive them... but shhhhh, I'm not allowed to say anything yet!)
P.S. how is the midrange on that 950? If it's anything like the A250 it's probably not up my alley, but if on the other hand it's closer to the O2, then I'm going to like it a lot.
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I hope you've finally come to your senses and dropped all of this DIY nonsense and just got the best there is, a Rudistor Coriolan 2. I mean how can you go wrong with something as advanced...
PFFT. Quite clearly the Proline 750 has Unique Surround Sound Effect Technology , and you should forget those dinky Koss and go with the real thing. Mr Pinna said so, and he's never wrong!
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maybe something like this? it's a nice player.
I've been looking at that one, actually. I remember Tkam's review of the 840c, and his comments about the opus21 having a better midrange. It does seem like a good unit and used ones are right in the ballpark.
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Have a happy! Lots of this:
and of course 
and maybe 
as well if you're into that sort of thing.In other words, a happy and sober-free birthday!
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I'm honestly not sure as to what source I'll be getting, the Cary was just an idea. I don't want to use the Rega as a transport; I think that top-loading mechanism is far too fussy about CD angle and in general annoying to use in the long term, and most of my music is on CD. I would probably want a one-box solution but with digital inputs, otherwise I'll have to get a separate transport.
I'll probably have $2-2.5k to blow on it when the time comes so there will be plenty of options. Something along the lines of an 840c but with more musicality and a warm midrange, and a tube output stage.
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Well the current PC sounds like a jet engine, and I need a closed headphone to filter it out (dare I say 4070?). But, the current PC is also running on 6 years old. In a month or so I'll have a new one, which will be water cooled and dead silent, and then the 007 probably will be used for gaming. It's certainly comfortable enough for long stretches at a time. And, I'm thinking of a Cary 303/300 down the road, and that has digital inputs as I recall...
But, source is still not decided.
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Yeah man, I totally agree. The O2 is the best headphone I've owned bar none. Including the Mk2. I'm slowly coming around to the way it does soundstage, and the rest of the sound is just about perfect. It really does remind me of a K340 without the colorations, and better in every way.
001 for portable use, soon with a modded amp, 007 for home use... Who needs dynamics anymore?
Well, the DT770 is permanently welded to the PC so that's going to be the only exception
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HOLY FUCKING EARGASMS BATMAN!!!
I just got the sense, coming off a nice listening session, that the world sounds dull and lifeless compared to my rig. You know you have something special on your hands when you're getting that feeling. It's not something I've felt for a few years now, excluding my brief and partially successful stint with running the HD650 in push-pull mode off my speaker amp. That rig was magic, and this rig sounds surprisingly similar, but with a much more neutral tonality and more speed/detail all-around.
Still countless room for improvement in the signal path, of course, but the magic is back. Seriously, listening to Shpongle just now was like losing your body and letting your mind float through an infinite ocean of brilliant light.
There is also a very definite K340 vibe going, at least in terms of how my K340 sounded. In fact, it's eerie how similar the two headphones are. The O2 doesn't have the K340's colorations, either the warmth in the midrange or the annoying echoey reverb, and on a purely technical plane it's on another level. But, the magic that the K340 had is present here as well.
GPH: Thanks for the impressions, the KGSS is an amp I definitely have on the menu as a potential main course. Regarding your impressions of its drier tonality next to the T1 - is it simply a drier tonality than the T1, or a dry tonality in the absolute sense? I love the liquid, "wet" sound that I'm getting out of the O2 in my rig, and I would hate to lose that. I haven't hooked up the 717 yet but I am afraid I may lose out on that liquid aspect even with the supposedly warmer-sounding 717. Right now, the rig is magically fluid and organic, but the transformer box doesn't have the power to make the bass as tight as it should be.
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SR-Omega it is then but be prepared to pay dearly for one if you should find it. Going rate in Japan is close to 400kYen and even more here in the west. Think of it as a rounder and slightly woollier version of the SR-007 with a larger soundstage.
I'll also check out the EH1.2b, if it ever appears to have become a viable commercial product and not just a prototyle. I'm still following the 1.2b drama closely, and I hope something good will come of it, if only to motivate Stax to get their act together.
The expense of the SR-Omega, together with its rarity and its propensity for driver failure, makes me think twice about trying to find one. If it's not a stretch financially then I'll go for it, but ATM it's a risky investment.
Will keep you posted on how the 717 works out. Is it possible to substitute jumpers from other sources if I'm missing one? And where would I go by getting my hands on them?
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RE soundstage: I'm basically a sucker for HE90-like colorations, and keep in mind that ambient and downtempo electronica is a lot of my listening material. There, these kinds of colorations work very well. So, I don't know if the Mk1 is The Headphone for me, but it's certainly the best in my collection so far, and easily the most accurate headphone I've ever heard.
RE bass: The issue with the Mk2's bass isn't that it's boosted. The problem is that it's uneven. The midbass is overblown and the deep bass is lacking, and even on rock, if you listen closely to the bassline, you'll hear the bass getting fuzzier and quieter as the notes go lower and lower. With the Mk1 that doesn't happen; the bass is very even. I am also a bit of a closet basshead, and I wouldn't mind a general bass boost, but the Mk2 only boosts a specific part of the bass, and therein lies the problem.
RE groupthink: Nah, I think we're just experienced people that know our stuff and have the balls to come out and say what we think. Every time someone gets a shiny new toy and it doesn't perform to par there is a strong desire to make excuses and justify it. I've done that to some extent early on in my audio career, and I'm sick of it. I want my gear to get it right, especially when I'm paying top dollar for it.
Well, now I have two tasks: 1) to modify a 240V SRM-717 to 117V, and 2) to find a synergistic source for my whole rig, depending of course on how the Mk1/717 combo will sound. The above comparison was on the SRD-7 Pro/Dared VP-20 setup, and it's actually pretty damn good overall. But, there's room for improvement.
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Out of the main stuff (I really have too much gear):
O2 Mk1 > O2 Mk2 > HD650 balanced > HD600 balanced > K340 > SR-003 > HD600SE > SR-001 > HD650 SE > DT770
No ranking for the H2 or K1000, they aren't working right. When I get them up and running, I suspect the K1k will be around the O2 Mk2 mark, and as for the H2, I have no idea; anything from first place to last place is possible.
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Right, don't take these impressions for granted, since I'm pretty drunk. But, I do have the O2 Mk1 and the O2 Mk2 side-by-side.
What I notice immediately is that the Mk1 is much more linear in the bass. There is none of the Mk2's annoying midbass hump, and the bass is deeper. This works in two ways: in tracks that are deficient in bass to begin with, the Mk1 feels very bass-light. The Mk2's midbass boost actually helps it in dealing with thin recordings. But, in tracks that are full in bass, the Mk1 comes alive, whereas the Mk2 just sounds thick and boomy. So, the Mk1 is more accurate in the bass, better in good recordings - but worse on bad ones.
Also, I immediately notice that the Mk1's midrange tone is very different. It's much more neutral. It's not warm, mind you! I actually would prefer a warmer midrange tone. Rather, this is pretty much spot-on accurate. Think HD600 rather than HD650, and you'll get the picture. The Mk2 is distinctly boosted in the upper mids, which makes the midrange colder and somewhat harsher - but also more vibrant on some recordings.
Speaking of mids, the Mk2 is more forward in the mids. The Mk1 isn't recessed in the mids; it's actually just about ruler-flat, but the Mk2 has more boosted mids as a whole. That makes it more forward sounding than the Mk1. Also, curiously enough, the Mk1 sounds brighter on some tracks. When its midrange isn't quite as forward and its bass is more reflective of the insufficient bass on the recording, it can come off as pretty bright. Once again, this is more accurate since it's showing more of what's on the recording.
The Mk2 is distinctly more airy sounding. The headstage is bigger, and there seems to be more air and space between instruments. The Mk1 is more focused, and the headstage is smaller, though it portrays dimensional cues just as well, if not better than the Mk2. On the whole, I actually like the way the Mk2 does soundstage more.
But, in most respects, the Mk1 wins. It seems to me that the Mk1 is the ultimately neutral, ultimately accurate design. With the Mk2, the net effect is to take the Mk1 sound and make it more SR-404-ish. It's livelier, more forward, more vibrant, but the frequency response is messed up. It uses colorations to achieve this effect rather than being naturally more forward, more lively, and more vibrant. On some recordings, especially with rock, the Mk2's particular presentation makes for a more engaging listen. But on the whole, the Mk1 presents exactly what's on the recording, and does it in a very neutral, but still very lush and "wet" sort of way. It's more laid-back, a bit less thumpy in the bass, but also more transparent, and tends to disappear much more.
Now, my rig isn't good enough for either headphone to disappear completely, but while I'm aware of the Mk2's colorations, for good and ill, at all times, the Mk1 tends to let go a lot more and let the music come through.
So, to summarize:
Mk2:
- more forward in the midrange
- colder in the midrange with elevated upper mids
- airier sound with bigger headstage
- boosted midbass
- lacking deep bass
- lively and vivid but more colored
Mk1:
- ruler flat FR
- accurate, rather than warm tone in the mids
- linear bass, with no noticeable bass boost anywhere
- more relaxed and laid-back
- tighter, more focused soundstage with no artificial airyness
When all is said and done, I prefer the Mk1. I'll listen a bit more tomorrow when I'm sober, since believe me, I'm in no fit state to make comparisons, though the above does stink of truth (and booze).
But, before this, I was ready to dismiss the Mk2 as a failed design, a misstep in Stax's lineup, if you will. Right now, I think that it's not as good as the Mk1 but it's still one of the best headphones I've ever heard. It has a different sound and a different personality, and it's definitely more colored, but it's by no means anything other than a really good headphone. Just not the best one out there, unfortunately. Which the Mk1 very well may be.
Oh yeah, I actually find the Mk1 to be more comfortable, but that's because my particular pair has a headband that's more worn-in, and less tight. The Mk2's headband tends to pull the headphones out of position for me, but I'm sure with more wear, it will feel more natural.
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It looks like my SR-007A is going up for sale too as I just can't see any reason to keep them. The midrange is still too honky, cold and harsh and I have 3 other different yet very good Omegas to choose from. I will be sad to see them go though and the other phones I never use...
I would start off with a 717 and see if you like it. I'm going to get one too for my computer rig and to make it easier to answer all those damn 717 related questions.
I haven't heard the Dared but the SRD's can't feed the Omega lineup with enough power, no matter the amp. Yeah, I'm a tube man through and through, and I have a feeling that the KGSS would be a bit too clinical for my tastes. It seems to me that a 717 not only has the right price to performance ratio, but is also a very good stepping stone for my project this fall - building a Blue Hawaii.
Heh...here we go again.I am contemplating either building KGSS or Blue Hawaii...former is far more attractive because it is like 1/2 the price and much easier. If things go well, I might build it while in NJ - I want to do mini-millet first, for which parts have not been delivered for yet.
Nah, it shouldn't take too much time to put a new rig together, so you will still have something to listen to while you're here
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OK, scratch that. Blech!
Anyone got an O2 Mk1 in spankin' new condition they want to sell me?
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Well, I may have gotten my hands on an O2 Mk1. So, that means that I may have both in time to do some back to back listening. The Mk2 already found a buyer but it won't switch hands for two weeks or so.
Will be interesting to hear what's what, assuming the deal on the Mk1 works out.
Of course, then begins the hunt for an amp. I've sort of warmed up to the solid state idea, but still need to decide on KGSS vs 717. I do like a warmer tonality, so the 717 sounds a bit more appealing (that, and it's cheaper). I would consider a Woo GES but I need dual volume controls and I don't think it has that...
Is any of that going to do a better job than the SRD-7 Pro/Dared combo I already have? Or should I just suck it up and start DIYing that Blue Hawaii I've been thinking of?
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This really confuses me. When inane posts (perceived differently by any given reader) are cleaned up and mods step in to control the quality of posts, or kick out idiots (again, alledged differently by each reader) we are called the Nazi Police, or are blamed for "over-moderation". Everyone needs different things from a forum and sometimes, no matter what direction moderation goes in, it can be considered poor management by anyone at any given time. Moderators can only try to do what they think are right and aren't going to please everyone, all of the time. And consistency, can be tough. Hell, even our government and major corporations that have been around 50+ years, still can't get it perfect.
I think Icarium summed it up way better than I could have done it myself. Again, I'm not pointing fingers, and I have nothing but respect for you personally; I'm simply saying that this is how I would have preferred things to go down, and I think that the current situation would have been avoided if this is indeed how things would have been done.
Would the mods have taken a gigantic quantity of flak from the mainstream community? Yes and then some. The bitching would have been so loud you wouldn't have heard people shill their Rudistors and Ultrasones. But in the long term, I think it would have been worth it. I've seen examples of communities moderated that way, and while they are invariably harsh on the newbie that doesn't make the necessary effort to adapt to the forum etiquette, they have always maintained a consistent quality of posts despite their growing popularity.
To quote Conan the Barbarian: "Success will test one's mettle as well as the strongest adversary."
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How's the midrange on the modded Mk2? Is it still colder than the Mk1? Also, is it possible to bend, bash, hammer, or otherwise mod the Mk2 springs to get them to resemble Mk1 springs?
Not that I'll probably do this since I intend to sell my Mk2, and I want it to stay as pristine as possible. But, I'm very much curious.
You are how ever in a bit of a pickle though there are a couple more options plus those that you listed, the new amp that Woo will release soon (which I know nothing about) and a better transformer box. Fixing the McAlister would be my first step though so what's wrong with it?
learn a new skill, and c) not kill myself in the process. Altogether unlikely, but hey, I've had worse odds in the past.
I haven't heard the Dared but the SRD's can't feed the Omega lineup with enough power, no matter the amp.
The Headcase Stax thread
in Headphones
Posted
O2 Mk1 is only "that" good in the sense that it's the first headphone I've come accross where I have very little to nitpick about. Any time I listen to a piece of audio gear and something is out of place, I start getting irritated and can't really relax into the music. Provided I'm in a critical listening mood, since I can listen to a crappy car system in a good mood and not care about how it sounds.
So, when you're driven by perfectionism but don't have bottomless pockets, it's very nice to have a headphone like this, which, when you think about its competitors, really isn't very expensive for what it offers. In fact, I'm hard pressed to find any reason for going with anything other than the O2 Mk1 in its price bracket, unless of course you don't like its presentation.
Too bad the hidden costs are so steep, but I don't see how this would be any different for any other seriously high-end transducer. Garbage in = garbage out.
And yes, the O2 definitely isn't about impressing on the first listen. Sure, it can be very impressive if the music is very impressive, but a lot of its stuff comes out when you've had time to listen to the nuances of its presentation. It doesn't flaunt its detail, drive, dynamic range, soundstage, etc. But for all that, it's still the most detailed and dynamic headphone I've ever heard (well maybe the Qualia 010 can do better but it's been a long time since I've heard one) and its imaging is second to none. It doesn't take apart the whole to impress you with the individual aspecs of its presentation.