Jump to content

Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning


Recommended Posts

Bottom line for me is that I would never, ever pay $5k for such an amp, especially considering the people that come to its defense and how crazy they seem (not all of them but 2 come to mind).  You really don't see the same kind of fanatics/clueless shills for Headamp, EC, ECP.  You did see the same thing with Mikhail's crap...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 511
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

While many here believe the LL is a (insert profane description) the level of hatred/disgust/disrespect/etc. in this thread is a little surprising.  Alex is nowhere near operating at Mikhail's level o

About as nuts as unearthing a five year old thread and arguing with a ghost about a dead company.

I know 2 shills for ECP and we are both batshit crazy.

Posted Images

While many here believe the LL is a (insert profane description) the level of hatred/disgust/disrespect/etc. in this thread is a little surprising.  Alex is nowhere near operating at Mikhail's level of consumer debauchery, in my opinion at least.  Are there issues with the LL, Kevin and Birgir think so, Alex does not.  All I know is that I'm not qualified to enter into that particular discussion other than to say that his products are not the first nor will they be the last to have exposed terminals on the IEC.  I don't find that particular offense all that offensive.  It's probably more risky to have exposed tubes on many of the amps that we use regularly given the potential for serious burns to occur.  But anyway, back to my original point.  HC generally operates with a pretty loose set of rules and we typically (myself included) jump all over the random asshat that comes around trying to start what they believe to be an interesting topic.  But this thread, again in my opinion, should be different.  Birgir is levelling serious criticism and when the manufacturer takes the time to put forth a response the reply that gets applauded is one where he's told to go fuck himself?  If you don't like Alex I'm not going to argue.  If you don't like his products I'm not going to argue.  If you don't like his business model I'm not going to argue.  But the direction this thread is going makes me more than just a little uncomfortable.  

 

What I would like to see is more technical evaluation and discussion of the one serious (potential) problem in the lack of output resistors. 

 

Nate, you make some valid points.  I do not know you at all other than my impression of you based on your posts, but I greatly respect your viewpoint because of them.  You have long been one of the core group of people here and at HF who's opinions hold great weight.

 

I totally understand your viewpoint on this.  I really do.  Perhaps a few here (myself included) have come off a bit harsh and/or disrespectful to Alex.  Having said that, in my view, this thread started out as an exposé of an inferior design with safety issues and shoddy workmanship.  That all changed with the blasé poofy response from Alex.  Glossing over obvious facts (like the soldering), having the "if it does not fail, it must be fine" attitude, and ending with the statement he did is a bit insulting, no?  Also, in my view, it is extremely insulting to the consumer to shell out a LOT of money for an obviously inferior product.

 

So yes, you are right, a few of us might have been disrespectful to Alex, but a few words are a lot more benign than selling what he is for the price of a used car while telling people to accept it for what it is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m sure there are many ways to skin a cat with opinions as to safety. The LL may not be up to mine and your ideal of safety, but it has passed a standard deeming it safe for a commercial product. If you want to argue with the compliance standard that’s entirely a different debate.

John, can you help me understand what CE means? This is what wikipedia says and leads me to think it doesnt really amount to anything special:

" CE marking is a self-certification scheme. Retailers sometimes refer to products as "CE approved", but the mark does not actually signify approval. Certain categories of products require type-testing by an independent body to ensure conformity with relevant technical standards, but CE-marking in itself does not certify that this has been done."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aren't the CE regulations and associated testing/compliance complicated enough that we would need to know the actual directives applicable to this product, what exactly was tested, and what exactly was deemed "safe" about the product?  I have no horse in this race about the product itself.  Rather, my past experience with the CE mark (medical devices in a merger) is that it can be an enormous pain in the ass for something that has less than a straightforward meaning. 

 

Alex, please go ahead and post the report or at least a summary of it.  I think people would appreciate knowing what the CE mark actually covers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The CE tests is a basic test of electric compliance,hence the name, this is not some gold standard.  It's the basic "will not catch fire on the spot" test and often called China Electric as makers of cheap crap flaunt it to make their products appear good  As it stands the earthing on this LL does not meet the European safety standard as the earth can become loose so how is this the end of the matter?  Also please show me the part of CE testing that extends to the units intended function and how peripherals connected to it are protected? 

 

The Stax amps are all CE and PSE marked and yet the headphones and the user are protected when using them. 

 

We need to make ECP make a Stax amp for us.  Unknown tubes and transformers... when can I order one Doug?  :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I talked to certification lab about getting certified a device that I just invented to perform frontal lobe lobotomies via high voltage differential outputs. I asked which of the certifications they offer that this would pass and it didnt seem to be an issue. Heh. I am going to try other labs to compare their responses.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Besides the safety issues the subjective evaluations of this amp are confusingly different. According to MacedonianHero bass is sucked out below 80 Hz and I get a very similar impression from spritzers review. On the other hand the review on Inner Fidelity is positive although some minor problems are mentioned.

 

"I'll recommend the big, warm sound of the Liquid Lightning to fans of contemporary music of all types. Hard driving bass lines will be delivered with ample thump, complex crunching guitars will come shining through with a little extra sparkle, but without harsh or confusing distortion...even at fairly loud levels." (Tyll Hersens review of LL1 at Inner Fidelity).

 

Confusing at least. That reinforces my current policy to only buy things I can borrow for a home audition, in practice it will be very few headphone items.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Besides the safety issues the subjective evaluations of this amp are confusingly different. According to MacedonianHero bass is sucked out below 80 Hz and I get a very similar impression from spritzers review. On the other hand the review on Inner Fidelity is positive although some minor problems are mentioned.

 

"I'll recommend the big, warm sound of the Liquid Lightning to fans of contemporary music of all types. Hard driving bass lines will be delivered with ample thump, complex crunching guitars will come shining through with a little extra sparkle, but without harsh or confusing distortion...even at fairly loud levels." (Tyll Hersens review of LL1 at Inner Fidelity).

 

Confusing at least. That reinforces my current policy to only buy things I can borrow for a home audition, in practice it will be very few headphone items.

 

I don't see a conflict here...most contemporary music doesn't go below 80Hz. So most likely its fine for bass for most modern genres in terms of presence, but lacks sub-bass. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about the bass is that it's at the same time way over the top and anemic.  There is no sub bass at all and it has a huge peak higher up making it sound like a bloody dynamic.  This slow, muddy, thundering bass that over powers everything.  As coloration's often do they stand out more on some tracks than others.  On some you have the bass drowning out everything and the coloration in the top end wanting to claw your ears out.  It's that bad with flat headphones, I don't even want to think how bad the 009 is... 

 

Edit.  I didn't want to work on the LL today so I instead swapped in a normal bias socket on the 007tA I have here.  That means stripping the amp down so it's fun to compare to something like the LL.  Stax have thought this through so the sockets are mounted on a special plate so it is easy to get to them.  Socket on the back that connects both of them that makes wiring neater and now all the switching stuff for the inputs is hidden behind the front panel.  There is so much labor that goes into making these that it isn't even funny

Edited by spritzer
Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about the bass is that it's at the same time way over the top and anemic.  There is no sub bass at all and it has a huge peak higher up making it sound like a bloody dynamic.  This slow, muddy, thundering bass that over powers everything.  As coloration's often do they stand out more on some tracks than others.  On some you have the bass drowning out everything and the coloration in the top end wanting to claw your ears out.  It's that bad with flat headphones, I don't even want to think how bad the 009 is... 

 

With this elaborate description I am inclinded to believe you. Could that mean that Inner Fidelity also is a part in the hyping business? Or at least grossly understating weaknesses of the gear they review. The recent adoption of Guttenberg should support that view.

 

Audiojunkie, it is not true that most contemporary music has no output under 80 Hz. Then we listen to extremely different kinds of music. Try it on speakers with a lower limit of 40 Hz and you can easily hear the bass compression. Classical rock works much better on such speakers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With this elaborate description I am inclinded to believe you. Could that mean that Inner Fidelity also is a part in the hyping business? Or at least grossly understating weaknesses of the gear they review. The recent adoption of Guttenberg should support that view.

 

Audiojunkie, it is not true that most contemporary music has no output under 80 Hz. Then we listen to extremely different kinds of music. Try it on speakers with a lower limit of 40 Hz and you can easily hear the bass compression. Classical rock works much better on such speakers.

 

I don't know about that...just listen to why so many say they love Grado's with rock and pop....and they have nothing below 80Hz. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

With this elaborate description I am inclinded to believe you. Could that mean that Inner Fidelity also is a part in the hyping business? Or at least grossly understating weaknesses of the gear they review. The recent adoption of Guttenberg should support that view.

 

Tyll is most certainly not part of the hype train.  Electrostatics are not his usual thing though so that might be a factor. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyll is most certainly not part of the hype train.  Electrostatics are not his usual thing though so that might be a factor. 

 

Yup. I can only report what i Heard. The issues raised here are pretty different than a review of its sound. 

 

I thought it sounded pretty good, but the BHSE was the clearly superior amp to my ears in the test.

 

I thin Alex should directly address the output safety circuit issues raised here. He's producing an amp that can pack a wallop; making it safe is his responsibility. Addressing concerns of competent critics is within his capabilities surely.

Edited by Tyll Hertsens
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...