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Hifiman Shangri-La, new Electrostatic


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I met with Fang last week, and my wife and I had dinner with him while he was in Colorado for a manufacturer trade show.  I discussed the Shanggri-La with him, asking about the rear grills, and he convinced me that the design is intentional and that their measurements don't indicate a back-wave reflection problem or resonance problem, but rather it's all positive.  Personally, I would not say anything about them and the design until we can hear it for ourselves.  

As for Mike, he's a really nice guy who is maybe too excited to try new things and maybe doesn't get out of the honeymoon period, but I do think he writes what he believes in.  In my case, I've turned down a lot of review offers, because I don't want or need the attention.  Other's like that kinda thing.  And while some gear is better than others, back in the old days I tended to only say bad things if it sounds really bad - if it's "okay sounding" but not as good as other gear then I'll share the good and the bad, and then rank it among other similarly priced things I've heard, while making sure to list what's better and what's worse.  If I ever said I love it, it's because it really suited my personal preferences.

i.e. Darth Beyers, I don't think I had anything good to say unless I used EQ and forgot about it, while Edition 9 sounded good only if they were the first headphone I put on for the day and they were modded.  Back then a modded Ed 9 still killed the Darth Beyer with their energy and exciting/powerful sound.  But if I would start out first with a well amp'd HD600, SR-007, or HD800 and then switch to an Edition 9, then it was like "Oh crap, these are dark and moody and closed in like a Darth Beyer".  Others would not bother to rank them Darth < Ed 9 < HD600 < HD800 like me, but rather would clump the Darth and Ed 9 together at the bottom and not mention any pros for them.

On the other hand, my SR-009 sounded wonderful with my KGBH, almost perfect, but were a little fatiguing in the highs and lacked punch with my KGSS.  They sounded even thinner and brighter if the volume was pushed too far on the KGSS, while the KGBH gave them weight and punch.  If I hadn't bought the KGBH then I would have had a lot more to complain about with the SR-009, because system synergy is important and can make or break one's impressions.  Many people here complain about the SR-009 having some issues, but frankly with the right amp and DAC I just didn't agree.  We train our brain to make up for our ear's deficiencies, and our ears/brain do adjust to what we listen to the most.  And after a long listening session, if one switches the gear up then the sound of the next one they try out can be altered by that brain training.  Listen to crap first and the next thing sounds wonderful, and visa versa.

Basically, it takes a cleansing of the ear pallet to realize what you're really listening to, as well as proper gear synergy.  Something that's bad sounding might not fully rear it's ugly head until It's compared side by side with something that's so superior that the flaws can't be ignored or explained away anymore. 

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i have read your post several times and am having trouble making sense of it. Either your anecdotes have nothing to do with your claims, or directly contradict them (either way, non sequiturs). Of course when listening to a crappy headphone, then listening to a good headphone, the better one will sound better. And when listening to a good headphone and then a crappy one, the better one will sound better. This only proves that good headphones sound good and bad headphone sound bad. What does that have to do with "altered by brain training"? How does this relate to a "cleaning of the ear pallet" and "synergy" when one of your claims is that you train your brain to adjust to what you listen to  most? Doesn't that automatically disqualify your opinion on your former arguments about the SR-009? If the latter claim is true, how come when you listen to a bad headphone first and your brain adjusts, the good headphone you listen to afterward doesn't sound bad?

And while some gear is better than others, back in the old days I tended to only say bad things if it sounds really bad - if it's "okay sounding" but not as good as other gear then I'll share the good and the bad, and then rank it among other similarly priced things I've heard, while making sure to list what's better and what's worse.  If I ever said I love it, it's because it really suited my personal preferences.

How is this different from anyone else, noninclusive of shills?

 

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51 minutes ago, mypasswordis said:

i have read your post several times and am having trouble making sense of it. Either your anecdotes have nothing to do with your claims, or directly contradict them (either way, non sequiturs). Of course when listening to a crappy headphone, then listening to a good headphone, the better one will sound better. And when listening to a good headphone and then a crappy one, the better one will sound better. This only proves that good headphones sound good and bad headphone sound bad. What does that have to do with "altered by brain training"? How does this relate to a "cleaning of the ear pallet" and "synergy" when one of your claims is that you train your brain to adjust to what you listen to  most? Doesn't that automatically disqualify your opinion on your former arguments about the SR-009? If the latter claim is true, how come when you listen to a bad headphone first and your brain adjusts, the good headphone you listen to afterward doesn't sound bad

How is this different from anyone else, noninclusive of shills?

 

Whatever.  

I'm saying that what he hears may not be what you or others hear, depending on the gear used, and in addition, that maybe he's just a little too excited when he posts things because that's his personality.

And we can't help the brain training, it's built into us, so what we hear is dependent on what we were listening to just prior to auditioning the gear. If I started to listen to the Edition 9 as the first headphone of the day it wasn't so bad, but if I listened to the HD800 or SR-007 first, and switched to the Ed 9 they sounded MUCH worse.  If I listened to the Darth Beyer first, the Edition 9 sounded even more amazing when switching to them. When I'd come off of listening to the Edition 9 and switched to my HE60 the HE60 sounded shrill and fatiguing.  But if the HE60 were the 1st headphone I listened to they sounded amazing.  blah blah blah - the brain adjusted and made a good phone bad and a bad phone good, temporarily.

Edited by HeadphoneAddict
Missed a question to answer...
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On 2/27/2016 at 5:35 AM, kugino said:

owned it. wasn't impressed. liked the th900 better. any idea how the hd800s sounds? I haven't been following it...

To be quite frank, the difference between the HD800s to the classic is very small on both my SuSy Dynahi & ECP DSHA-0.  On lower end rig, a stock HD800 can be tough to listen to due to its treble energy (with relatively warmish upgrade cable ...it is less of an issue).  I would buy a used HD800 and add a blue dragon upgraded cable rather than paying full price for the HD800S.  

Edited by purk
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3 hours ago, purk said:

To be quite frank, the difference between the HD800s to the classic is very small on both my SuSy Dynahi & ECP DSHA-0.  On lower end rig, a stock HD800 can be tough to listen to due to its treble energy (with relatively warmish upgrade cable ...it is less of an issue).  I would buy a used HD800 and add a blue dragon upgraded cable rather than paying full price for the HD800S.  

I'm pretty happy with my stock HD800 that I picked up at CanJam 2009 plus Black Dragon balanced cable.  I have a Locus Design custom made Hyperion 6-foot cable that Lee made just for me, which I use in more portable situations or with single ended amps.

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The first Valhalla cable I bought gave most for my money in my system. The 2nd Valhalla gave me more. The more Valhalla I added the bigger the improvements got because less weaknesses were left. The last Valhalla power cord I added gave the biggest improvement because it removed the biggest weakness that was left.

 

5.jpg

 

 

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Indeed...  :P

The whole "getting used to something" doesn't really hold any water for me.  Sure you can be fooled for a while (hello HE90!!) but it doesn't last for long.  Also stating that the 009 works well with the BH is no surprise, it rolls off after 10kHz.... 

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Heard these at CJ over the weekend.  They were pretty good I'd say.  A bit light on their feet similar to the old Lambdas.  Soundstage was pretty disappointing.  Overall they sounded pretty neutral to me.  For the price they're a joke though.  I think the L700 I heard later that day was better. 

Supposedly the amp chassis for this is getting redesigned as well so that the tubes will be visible from the front.

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They were better than most Lambdas, more neutral at least.

Ya I tried the Ether stat prototypes.  They didn't really do it for me.  The mids were a little off, sharp.  One unit also had some kind of distortion issue during loud passages.  My biggest beef with them was the lack of soundstage and imaging ability.  These had a 3 blob headstage and no layering, very similar to the Audeze sound in that regard.  They still need some work but the noobs seemed to like them so I'm not sure how much they'll be changed.

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They will probably be flavour-of-the-month for those coming off <$200 phones until they hear something better.   :P

I can read it all now.....!   THESE ARE THE BESTEST 'PHONES EVAH..!!!!     :wub:      Which is totally true for them. Let ignorant posters lie.......! :rolleyes:

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  • 6 months later...

Price confirmed: 50K USD for headphones & amp combo.

Rumored price for the headphone alone is 10K USD.

Looking at Stax Omega line of products life cycle, 009 successor should come this year...way more interesting than this HE1000 on steroids.

There are pics of Shangri-La's final version at the other place. Same wood veneer than HE-560 (or at least it looks identical), so for 10k you get legendary Hifiman build quality too (lol).

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4 hours ago, johnwmclean said:

Congrats to the amp designers, they've really nailed whole the coffee machine appearance. 

Can it do a nice espresso or flat white...?  :rolleyes:

...or does it only do (spit) (spit) lattes...?    :blink:

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But,   but...   awww c'mon - they're a collectors item...... You're not really supposed to use them...

 

Just sit it on a shelf as a showpeice.

Apparently at RMAF Fang expressed the hope of perhaps someone buying one.....   

Perhaps the price is so high because he wants to keep it for hisself.......  

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