Me and my Zana Deux (+ pics)...

[PFKMan23]

wait till you get it optimized for bl7s as outputs.

[purk]

Typical Mike. He don't want to be without the SDS so he has been running the slam adapter for over a year. What he needs to do is send his amp to get the upgrade to high voltage, which is totally worth it. It might take Mikhail a months or two to do it, but we all know it worths the wait.

[deepak]

A month or two? lol purk you need to read more Head-case threads.

[purk]

A month or two? lol purk you need to read more Head-case threads.

That's the average for me. I had three repaired/upgrade works performed by Mikhail and in most case i got my amp back with in less than 6 weeks.

[grawk]

That's the average for me. I had three repaired/upgrade works performed by Mikhail and in most case i got my amp back with in less than 6 weeks.

How recently have you tested this?

[Nanoha]

Special treatment for preferred customers.

No?

[mulveling]

Well guys, I'm still very wary of the turnaround time...but I'm more seriously considering doing this after as I sell my Sugden Headmaster for the $$$ (I haven't really needed that amp for ages now). I'm at least halfway confident the Zana Deux can tide me over for a long time without the SDS. The other amps I've had recently sure as hell weren't gonna cut it

I'm just too damn tempted by these 400V tubes.

Sooo Purk...what's the package I should ask for? 400V mod, and what cap upgrades did you get? Gain control? The SDS Slam's high gain works very well with my TT rig. Doubt I'll be needing preamp outputs now. What else does your "SE" version have?

[PFKMan23]

Special treatment for preferred customers.

No?

Not really.

[me=PFKMan23]stares at Earl's amps[/me]

[mulveling]

Mike could probably learn how to do it himself before he actually got it back from Mikhail

Lol! Maybe, but for sure I would ruin the pretty chassis when it came time to punch holes...

I just polished the thing last night. Fantastic kitchen cleaner makes it look, well...fantastic!

[Icarium]

I'd rank the upgrades like this personally. Transformer upgrade -> silver wiring in audio path -> audio note (or lesser I suppose like mere v-cap) coupling caps -> stage 2 or 1 black gates -> black gates in power section and other things.

Definitely get the 400 volt high voltage setting and maybe the bias selector dial.

[purk]

You should get the following:

1) 400 Voltage

2) Blackgates PS capacitors

3) Blackgates High Capacitance capacitors output

4) Adjustable Bias

5) Pre-amp output

I believe all and all, it was certainly less than 1k, which is very well worth it.

The upgrade to Piltron will likely be additional 1k, and another 1.5K for those audionote caps. I am extremely satisfied with the upgrade that I got. Maybe...one day...I willl jump up to the audionote caps. 1.5K is slightly too much for capacitors.

[philodox]

I wonder if the blackgates are any better than the elna silmic II's... or if anyone has bothered to try.

[Icarium]

Yeah I've heard enough dissenting views of blackgates in the power supply to really totally buy into it... but meh who knows.

[Nanoha]

Good caps in the power supply matter for tube amps. They affect the sound significantly.

[Icarium]

Good caps anywhere is something that I am all for. But from what I understand there is a difference between caps that test well and "audiophile" caps. I've heard people say black gates test poorly and others say black gates test very well. I tenddd to think that blackgates probably do not test well and instead do something to color the sound in a pleasing way... this isn't really based on any research of my own. But I kind of equate them (Based on what others have said who I trust to a certain degree) to things like carbon/tantalum resistors which will not be as clean as a good metal film resistor or even better a bulk foil resistor... yet many swear by the warm and delightful sound produced by those.

So what kind of makes sense in my mind is having clean/well testing resistors/caps what have you in the power section and a few "audiophile" caps/resistors in the audio section for flavor.... maybe? Shrug. I don't know I'm certainly not an EE or a designer, but that's kind of what has made sense to me based on what I've read.

Anyway, a lot of DIYers that I've read posts from say things like it is silly to put black gates in the power section and instead some cheaper but better testing capacitor will perform better. If someone who has done tests (Rolled in blackgates versus something less esoteric I'd like to hear results."

[philodox]

Yeah, my point or question was more that the Elna Silmic II's are really good and I wonder if the Blackgates are at all better. These are both good caps.

I've been thinking about overhauling the PSU on the MA as well, so any info people have would be helpful.

[mulveling]

Now I've tried my TungSol round plate black glass VT229's in the Zana Deux. It still retains the super clarity and overall neutral tone it had with the Sylvania, but now the mids are a tad less "hard". A bit more pleasing, musical. I like

A few notes about the operation of the Zana Deux vs. the SDS. I guess it can be said that the SDS, wonderful as it is, reveals its prototype nature in certain ways. First, the noise floor on the Zana Deux is dead quiet; for sure quieter than the SDS. The little bit of noise thats left can probably be attributed to my phono stage. The prototype SDS does have a fan whirring inside the chassis, which while fairly quiet, can excite tubes that are particularly micro phonic. I do notice a slight amount of noise while rotating the Zana's volume knob, but of course this isn't an issue while listening.

Second, the issue of preamp - I think I've noticed my woofers vibrating about more vigorously with the SDS as preamp. This would indicated subsonic noise is entering the audio chain. My phono stage has a 10 Hz filter, so the TT is a less likely culprit. It could be possible that the big, steel sheet chassis of the SDS is picking up acoustic vibrations and converting it into low frequency thumps via the tubes. That's my working theory at the moment anyhow. I suppose I could easily test it by tapping on th chassis; but I'd rather have some cheap speakers on hand to test that with The Zana Deux's chassis is clearly better suited to resisting acoustic feedback. The SDS sounded GREAT as a pre, but the Zana Deux sound better, and the discrepancy may well be caused by this subsonic issue. Obviously, I've switched all preamp duties to the Zana...the woofers have been pretty perfectly steady with the Zana driving so far.

The final issue I've noticed is that of power on tap. Since I've got a low output 0.3 mV cartridge, I need to crank the volume pretty high on certain records. The SDS, regardless of headphone, seems to "top off" SQ-wise, at around 12:00-1:00 on the volume dial (lucklily this is rarely needed). More than this, I would not recommend - it just runs out of steam. The Zana Deux stays strong at least up to 2:00, perhaps more, fortunately I haven't had to push past this

As a headphone amp, both amps are sounding very VERY good to me right now. Listened to more of Alan Parsons Project I Robot and Michael Jackson's Bad during lunch break today

[deepak]

Now I've tried my TungSol round plate black glass VT229's in the Zana Deux. It still retains the super clarity and overall neutral tone it had with the Sylvania, but now the mids are a tad less "hard". A bit more pleasing, musical. I like

A few notes about the operation of the Zana Deux vs. the SDS. I guess it can be said that the SDS, wonderful as it is, reveals its prototype nature in certain ways. First, the noise floor on the Zana Deux is dead quiet; for sure quieter than the SDS. The little bit of noise thats left can probably be attributed to my phono stage. The prototype SDS does have a fan whirring inside the chassis, which while fairly quiet, can excite tubes that are particularly micro phonic. I do notice a slight amount of noise while rotating the Zana's volume knob, but of course this isn't an issue while listening.

Second, the issue of preamp - I think I've noticed my woofers vibrating about more vigorously with the SDS as preamp. This would indicated subsonic noise is entering the audio chain. My phono stage has a 10 Hz filter, so the TT is a less likely culprit. It could be possible that the big, steel sheet chassis of the SDS is picking up acoustic vibrations and converting it into low frequency thumps via the tubes. That's my working theory at the moment anyhow. I suppose I could easily test it by tapping on th chassis; but I'd rather have some cheap speakers on hand to test that with The Zana Deux's chassis is clearly better suited to resisting acoustic feedback. The SDS sounded GREAT as a pre, but the Zana Deux sound better, and the discrepancy may well be caused by this subsonic issue. Obviously, I've switched all preamp duties to the Zana...the woofers have been pretty perfectly steady with the Zana driving so far.

The final issue I've noticed is that of power on tap. Since I've got a low output 0.3 mV cartridge, I need to crank the volume pretty high on certain records. The SDS, regardless of headphone, seems to "top off" SQ-wise, at around 12:00-1:00 on the volume dial (lucklily this is rarely needed). More than this, I would not recommend - it just runs out of steam. The Zana Deux stays strong at least up to 2:00, perhaps more, fortunately I haven't had to push past this

As a headphone amp, both amps are sounding very VERY good to me right now. Listened to more of Alan Parsons Project I Robot and Michael Jackson's Bad during lunch break today

Mike safe to say I won't be seeing this baby huh

[Icarium]

Oh yeah and Mike, consider the 45 stepper stepped attenuator that thing is fucking awesome. I have the 24 on my ES-1 and SS-1 and I don't think they give the granularity I need.... the 45 step one almost gives me more than I need.

[mulveling]

Mike safe to say I won't be seeing this baby huh

Well people should know by now, I can get a bad case of "new toy" syndrome here and there, lol...

However, it's been over a week with the Zana Deux, I've given it several good rigorous listening session workouts that were all as enjoyable as I've ever experienced, and it's been neck-to-neck in head-to-head duels with the SDS w/ HD650, L3000, and Qualia. The SDS has a bit more bass impact, the Zana may be a bit cleaner & more transparent, then there's the slight difference in sonic flavor that could just come down to tube selection.

So, I'm becoming fairly confident my highly positive impressions so far will hold over the long run, like they did with the SDS, L3000, SOTA, etc. And if so, I give it my highest "killer value" recommendation in the high-end, for being so excellent as BOTH a preamp and headphone amp, super fit & finish, and under $2K. Yeah, I love this thing. I keep it safe from dust and unplugged when not in use, and I throw it loving glances when I pass by

[mulveling]

Arg, edit window is so short

For a rig in the $3500-$5000 range, I think the HD650, Zana Deux, and a good TT source would be a tough one to match. Of course a newer Supra would probably be pretty damn good too.

[Icarium]

Yeah HD6X0 or w5000 + zana deux is a rig that is hard to match esp at the price. It can be better but not with that level value.

Interesting findings on your SDS. My noise floor on mine is dead silent though the amp is microphonic but that doesn't enter into the sound unless i ping it with my fingers. As far as hiss there is none.

And the gain, well that can change a lot with the driver tube i've noticed. When I brought it over for the last norcal mini meet people were pushing it to like 3 o clock to get acceptable levels of sound

from it and it was clipping like mad. With the 12AV7 and even better the 2C51 I don't have to turn the dial past 8 to 9 o clock to get a level of sound that might even be too loud ;p

[purk]

if you have a black chassis SDS then yours is significantly more evolved than Mike's

The difference is just the chassis nothing else really. The circuit is still the same according to Mikhail. Again, Mike is running his SDS with 7119 or 5687 or as an output or gain tubes, which can be good but not great. This configuration do adds impact over the 6SN7 configurations if you are running the 5687 as a slam configuration but loose out in refinement and air from the all 6SN7 configurations. OTHO, the improvement from running the 6BL7GTs & Tungsol 2c51 and GE 12AY7 in his amp can be very drastic. I wish Mike go ahead with his amp upgrade....but he probably will never ever do it. I am not sure whether he realizes that he is missing out on what SDS can really do with the right tubes.

[Icarium]

It's pretty ridiculous how much my Tungsol 2C51/Sylvania 6BL7 GT has changed the Qualia sound. I wouldn't say it is necessarily better than the solid state/balanced qualia sound (SS-1)... since I believe the SS sound to be

the Qualias natural environ. But it definitely adds weight/tone/body to the sometimes thin sounding Qualia sound though at the intense sacrifice of soundstage and changes the headphone into a much more upfront sound.

It is like a completely different but equally high end headphone. Ridiculous.

[mulveling]

From what little I've heard, purk's "SE" version is a sonically step up from mine, especially with the R10. The Zana Deux is competing with my SDS, so I'm guessing that the SDS SE would be a bit better than the ZD as a headphone amp, though perhaps not for all headphones (Qualia?). This is the first time I've had a headphone amp in house, where (after at least a week of listening) I felt it was at the level of the SDS, with multiple headphones - besides Purk's SDS, of course.

The noise floor is definitely higher on my SDS than the Zana, not sure about purk's, but the noise doesn't bother me. I'm a vinyl fan, remember? I think most of the noise floor is coming from the chassis fan's vibrations transported through the chassis to the tubes and exciting them micro phonically. Which bring me backs to the chassis - the big steel chassis looks awesome (IMO) and is a conversation starter for sure - but it's a terrible liability as a preamp because it's incapable of managing or dissipating vibrations.