909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 i received a demo mpx3 that the back panel had also been riveted. Mikhail told me that his chasis are made in house, but this conflicts with hirsch comment of outsouring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 909, I really enjoy reading all your posts, and have enjoyed having you around headcase, and I do respect you and your opinion, so take what I'm about to ask gently. Whats your beef with Mikhail and/or Singlepower? i like Mikhail and think he is a very nice guy. i believe he would do next to anything to make his customers happy and deserves to be commended for that, but if you read my posts today and my previous one i think it is fairly obvious regarding my concerns or issues with SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 it's not really false information, but my use of a word for lack of a better one. in fact, every amp is locked shut usually with normal screws that anyone can open without much effort or difficulty. What differentiates SP is that it doesn't use common household screws, many more fasteners than necessary and much tighter than necessary and some might even had been secured with additional rivets. so when i say locked i mean is requires a specialized tool key to open. every amp i've encounted are relatively easy to open up. the SP ones, on the other hand, are more locked up for lack of a better term and as you duly noted can be extremely difficult to open. Sweet jebus you could make a living stuffing 10lbs of shit in a 1lb bag. It's an Allen wrench, and perhaps he uses them to avoid being sued by idiots opening the chassis. Or maybe he likes the way they look better? Regardless I'm with the others, that's hardly a lock. If I was a man'f I'd probably use safety screws that require a genuinely special tool and tell customers that if they opened the amp they void the warranty, like every other major man'f does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjg Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 i'd just put a sign on the back that said inside is nude pictures of dusty chawks mom, beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purk Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 i'd just put a sign on the back that said inside is nude pictures of dusty chawks mom, beware. in her mid 20s. Sorry...couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 i'd just put a sign on the back that said inside is nude pictures of dusty chawks mom, beware.Yeah, that should stop anyone. Purk -- I don't think you understood the purpose of Mark's warning, it was to keep people out of the amp. My mom, in her 20's, looked kind of like girl-next-door version of Audrey Hepburn. Without the gloves, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
en480c4 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I like the gloves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Sweet jebus you could make a living stuffing 10lbs of shit in a 1lb bag. It's an Allen wrench, and perhaps he uses them to avoid being sued by idiots opening the chassis. Or maybe he likes the way they look better? Regardless I'm with the others, that's hardly a lock. If I was a man'f I'd probably use safety screws that require a genuinely special tool and tell customers that if they opened the amp they void the warranty, like every other major man'f does. at least your getting value for your dollar whatever he is using hex, torx, sometimes possibly even rivets, it is certainly more of a task to open it up and it won't avoid a lawsuit. lookswise, it isn't like he is used them sparely. warranty or not around here we tend to like to look inside things. sorry you didn't like my use of the word lock or locked in this context, but to me in comparison to every other amp manufacturers around here that's the way i see it. next time i'll use a different word or phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I got my MPX3 upgraded to use the extreme tubes (5998, etc), and it took about 6 months. I'm pretty sure it just sat there until I started calling every day. The box also had about 500 dollars worth of tubes, adapters, and tube dampers in it and I got none of them, in addition to a tube and adaptor I payed for. Supposedly he is sending an assortment of tubes and adapters that is of equal value, but it's been a couple months and I haven't got anything. I'd just send it to the guy I sold my amp to anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Torx is the best choice, honestly. Least likely to strip. Hex next, philips last. And really, come on, more screws isn't to keep people out, it's to hold things together better. You'd be bitching that he put it together in a shoddy manner if he used fewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjg Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Yeah, that should stop anyone. Purk -- I don't think you understood the purpose of Mark's warning, it was to keep people out of the amp. My mom, in her 20's, looked kind of like girl-next-door version of Audrey Hepburn. Without the gloves, though. dusty i demand pics for this evenings activities. hAHAH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Torx is the best choice, honestly. Least likely to strip. Hex next, philips last. And really, come on, more screws isn't to keep people out, it's to hold things together better. You'd be bitching that he put it together in a shoddy manner if he used fewer. most amps i've seen use philips. usually around six or eight screws and you inside the thing, but the SP had substantially more like at least double, which is really overkill. don't think using less would give any indication of shoddiness as long as it had been sufficiently and securely fastened together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 i would never ship accessories with an item being repaired or modified. Well neither would I, but I had bought it used and had the guy ship it directly to him to speed up the process (or so I thought)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 sucks x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirsch Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 whatever he is using hex, torx, sometimes possibly even rivets, it is certainly more of a task to open it up and it won't avoid a lawsuit. lookswise, it isn't like he is used them sparely. warranty or not around here we tend to like to look inside things. sorry you didn't like my use of the word lock or locked in this context, but to me in comparison to every other amp manufacturers around here that's the way i see it. next time i'll use a different word or phrase. Good grief. You're really stretching now. And yes, making it difficult for an end user to access high voltages might not avoid a lawsuit, but it will help win one. Given the number of Darwin award candidates here and on Head-Fi, making it a bit difficult to open high voltage gear is a good thing. Maybe Mikhail is basing the type and number of fasteners on his estimate of how likely he thinks the customer is to go for the Darwin. If so, I think he didn't use enough fasteners on yours, which probably should have just been welded shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Wow hungrych that is terrible. Hopefully he makes good on it bleah :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Good grief. You're really stretching now. And yes, making it difficult for an end user to access high voltages might not avoid a lawsuit, but it will help win one. Given the number of Darwin award candidates here and on Head-Fi, making it a bit difficult to open high voltage gear is a good thing. Maybe Mikhail is basing the type and number of fasteners on his estimate of how likely he thinks the customer is to go for the Darwin. If so, I think he didn't use enough fasteners on yours, which probably should have just been welded shut. i like getting limber before i exercise. so you agree it is more difficult to open SP amps. And the so-called reason is to limit SP's liability? i doubt that's the only reason and probably not the very first one considering the p2p of yesterday. a sufficient warning and a reasonable number of secured fasteners should reduce his liability if someone did something stupid. welded shut might not be such a bad idea especially considering all the other stuff that's overlooked and put up dealing with SP, but it would probably add an additional 3 to 6 months to any build or repair that normally takes half a year already, though, knowing SP customers they'd take it and paid up. So SP customers get your Darwin award, figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 No, dude, he's saying that maybe Mikhail made an exception in your case, and made it harder to get in to than he made everyone else's. Fucking spin doctor. Here, two can play at this game: You already admitted that you chose your words poorly, and yet you still defend them. Why? It's not "locked". Change your terminology, and quit fucking repeating yourself. It's not "hard to get into", as has already been discussed at length by multiple people. A $1 tool does not qualify as "hard to get into", just because you don't have one. And twice as many fasteners does not count neither, as it would take an extra minute at most. Have you been inside any Musical Fidelity amplifiers? Have you been inside your Reimyo? Have you been inside a Rega? There ya go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 No, dude, he's saying that maybe Mikhail made an exception in your case, and made it harder to get in to than he made everyone else's. then why didn't he just say so... i received a completed demo unit that took over two months to even get shipped. this happened over two years ago. you're now seriously speculating, which is nothing more then pointless conjecture. Fucking spin doctor. Here, two can play at this game: You already admitted that you chose your words poorly, and yet you still defend them. Why? It's not "locked". Change your terminology, and quit fucking repeating yourself. It's not "hard to get into", as has already been discussed at length by multiple people. A $1 tool does not qualify as "hard to get into", just because you don't have one. Have you been inside any Musical Fidelity amplifiers? Have you been inside your Reimyo? Have you been inside a Rega? There ya go. you caught me--spin-spin-spin... i didn't say i choose my words poorly-- i said i used "lock or locked" for lack of a better term and next time i'll use a different word or phrase. I did changed my terminology since then and also explained why i used that particular word in this context. allen wrench and other tools i've got and if i really wanted to i could have opened up the mxp3, though, some of the fasteners were riveted and in comparsion to any other amp vastly more fasteners and extremely tight. i've opened up my ec2a3, raptor, gs-1, ecss, and a few other amps within seconds--none were fastener together so fastidious and over the top as the mpx3 and other SP amps i've seen. i've never owned a MF amp. i've considered opening the reimyo, but as of yet i've not especially since the screws are high polished brass/gold color and look flawless. i did open up the saturn to a certain degree i remove all the philip screws on the back panel and peeked inside--which has little to nothing to do with the amp manufacturers that build for this community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 The bottom plate of my amp is secured by four self tapping wood screws for christ sake, I WISH I had allen keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 you're now seriously speculating, which is nothing more then pointless conjecture.No, "making fun of you" would be more like it.i've opened up my ec2a3, raptor, gs-1, ecss, and a few other amps within seconds--none were fastener together so fastidious and over the top as the mpx3 and other SP amps i've seen. So you're saying his amps are put together more professionally than any of those? And I'm saying that's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Well my SP amp is sure pretty easy to open up. Just four 1/16th hex screws for each case. Simple enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 most amps i've seen use philips. usually around six or eight screws and you inside the thing, but the SP had substantially more like at least double, which is really overkill. don't think using less would give any indication of shoddiness as long as it had been sufficiently and securely fastened together. Have you ever built anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F1GTR Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I really need to hear one of these Singlepower amps so I can see what all the fuss is about. I don't know of any other manufacturer that has such staunch defenders, including Sennheiser. The one thing that has always kept me away from ordering one of Mikhail's units is the absolute ridiculous amount of upgrade options. IMO there's just too much to choose between and leave one indecisive. Couple this with all the recent accounts of people needing to have their amp looked over once more after it's been shipped, and this just isn't a good look. They seriously must be incredible in the sound department for the same people to continue to put up with these delays, and occasional qc issues, over and over again. So is the 20 hexbolt assembly an additional build option? I keed, I keed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 No, "making fun of you" would be more like it.So you're saying his amps are put together more professionally than any of those? And I'm saying that's a good thing. OK, not opposed to a little funny and not really certain what you mean by put together more professionally since i've not seen the process, though, i don't mean to even imply something like that.... but the way i understand your question, i would have to say no since it's unprofessional to give unrealistic delivery dates, make them wait around 6 months for new or repair and then there does seem to be quite a few issues even when new or the high-end stuff. i think must people really believe and trust Mikhail and it's these repeated unfilled promises followed by more delays and all those upgrades options that i find unsettling an unstated issue is HeadAmp, HeadRoom, RS Audio show the internals of there amps and even EC isn't reluctant to show the insides of his stuff or have pics posted. i've only seen the SP p2p debacle pics, ppx3 circuit board on moon audio, and some very recent pics of the mega buck amp at the San Jose meet. what's inside, what does it look like, etc... (i am curious to know). Have you ever built anything? i've built a lot of things, but nothing electrical. though, probably you already knew the answer before you asked it. yet even with mom and pop type amp builders i still believe i have the ability to perceive whether something is put together well and with care. They seriously must be incredible in the sound department for the same people to continue to put up with these delays, and occasional qc issues, over and over again. they sound good, but i think people believe if they spend more they'll get a superior sounding amp, which may or may not be the case. And public perception influences what people think and believe to a certain degree so they're more likely to put up with it. i think people like the flexibility of tube rolling and adapters, but i wonder if those adapters and building amps that can hanlde different tubes is like a multifunction printer, fax machine, copier, etc.. which does it all, but a stand alone product that specifically designed to handle one thing might do that one thing better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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