tkam Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 the one i received had been... Are you really sure it was? Or did you just think they looked like rivets? And just because I can here's some hi-rez internal shots of the power supply for my amp: http://head-case.org/tkam/thedragon/psu/ i'll put some shots of the audio section internals up later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purk Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 FYI, it is very nice to have 7 years warranty for my SDS. I don't have any problem with the build quality of SP amps. P2P wiring will always look less organized than PCB; however, they also sound slightly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Well I would hope so, considering it's a 5 figure amp. Although it still doesn't look like one IMO. What does look like a 5 figure amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i would like to see pics of a single power that has rivets holding it closed. if i would have known it isn't the norm, i would have taken some--hindsight is 20/20. i still don't understand what 909's beef with SP is. i take issue with the following: 1) lack of forthrightness with respect to wait time 2) lack of information about internals, upgrades and internal pics 3) exorbitant upgrade premiums The last one is my old toaster style MPX3. Is it bad, yes, but it worked fine. And you can see how the quality has improved since then. i've seen all but this last one and thanks for posting it. i saw the circuit board on moon audio's site years ago and i've also seen the one with Mikhail sitting besides it, but that thing is one of those mega buck amps. i don't think the SP chassis is "overbuilt" nor did i believe i suggested such a thing and certainly that's not a bad thing. as previously stated, Mikhail's track record is making promises he knows or should reasonably know he can't keep. i don't believe Justin gave his customers repeated false expectations and he was building 10 to 15 Aristaeus. additionally, not everything Mikhail builts falls into a specially designed chassis, but still it takes an unreasonably long time to delivery couple with the false hopes he gives the customer that it will arrive much sooner. my comments about Mikhail and Ray were in response to how long it seems to take them to design new products and imo Gilmore and Uthus wouldn't take as long. i wasn't doing so to pit one against another, but to show that it isn't a good thing to compare Ray to Mikhail. this so-called pissing contest has far less to do with another tube manufacturer then my experience with the mpx3, speculating wtf is inside and internal build quality and as you duly noted the unreasonably long wait time and hassle some (maybe most?) people put up with dealing SP (even though Mikhail is a really nic guy) plus the high ass premiums paid to go the upgrade path. of course, not... if he's putting his best foot forward. but what does his average stuff look like at least to me that would have more validity. positive--i wasn't the only one that saw it and commented on it. Mikhail does offer great warranties on his stuff, but that goes hand and hand with what he charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i don't believe Justin gave his customers repeated false expectations and he was building 10 to 15 Aristaeus. I know a number of Aristeaus owners who would beg to differ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 P2P wiring will always look less organized than PCB; however, they also sound slightly better. I'm really curious, has anyone ever really compared two like amps one with a PCB and the other PTP? This strikes me as one of those complete bullshit statements, no offense purk, there's just no logic behind it. The only way I can see there being a difference sound would be if one used silver wire to connect the components in lieu of the standard copper traces on a pcb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 if i would have known it isn't the norm, i would have taken some--hindsight is 20/20. i take issue with the following: 1) lack of forthrightness with respect to wait time 2) lack of information about internals, upgrades and internal pics 3) exorbitant upgrade premiums 1) I agree he is terrible with giving wait times which is unforunate 2) Lack of information? Publicly available (ie his website) sure I agree but if you call and ask him he'll tell you about anything 3) Some of the upgrade prices are rather high, but so what? No one is forcing you to get them. The stock amps sound very good already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I know a number of Aristeaus owners who would beg to differ if that is the case it wasn't right, but i believe Mikhail makes his own chassis now and isn't at the mercy of third party vendors. 2) Lack of information? Publicly available (ie his website) sure I agree but if you call and ask him he'll tell you about anything 3) Some of the upgrade prices are rather high, but so what? No one is forcing you to get them. The stock amps sound very good already. 2) putting stuff in writing removes doubt and likelihood of confusion. there still seems some unwillingness to show internal pics. 3) in general, SP stuff is rather pricey as are the upgrades, but it's rare to see base models so most go the upgrade route after talking with Mikhail and no one is force to do it. i can still take issue with respect to what he charges for an amp and upgrade pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i should also add to that list... 4) amps arriving with issues (obviously i don't know how often it happens, but i've read and heard enough about it to make it a concern) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i disagree with your second sentence, though. The reasons don't escape him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Most people who buy tube amps should not be opening them up. I'll say it again. Tube amps contain lethal voltages, and also have large capacitors that can hold a charge for months and years. If you don't know high-voltage safety, keep them closed. Fine if a builder wants to show off his work, or someone who can work safely opens an amp and take pictures. Not so fine if a first-time amp buyer opens an amp and takes a hefty 200 to 400 v shock. I have to bring out the bullshit meter, and its once again pegged at 11. I know of no other audio manufacturer of tube amplifiers that rivets shut their cases. Not conrad johnson, audio research, cary, VTL, EC, Woo Audio, atmasphere, the list goes on and on. Not even Mcalister who by all acounts should actually be riveting shut his amplifiers does so. Many of the above amplifiers have voltages and currents far in excess of what is in any of the DinglePower amplifiers. Mikhail told me more than 2 years ago he was applying for patents. Well if that was actually true in that amount of time the patent application would have showed up on the pto.gov website. Guess what, i checked, still nothing. Other than possibly the triangular layout of the tubes that might result in a design patent, there is absolutely nothing patentable about any of the DinglePower amplifiers. And the schematics are certainly well known and have been around for a very long time. If someone was going to pay for say a bigger transformer, or special caps, all of which are pricy upgrades, should they not be entitled to verify that they got what they paid for. In fact for someone who spent $10k+ on an amplifier, should it have significant flaws right out of the box. Not even Ray Shambles does such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 my sentiments exactly KG! well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I have personally only seen a picture of one such unit which clearly had pop-rivets holding the bottom on. I have a copy of that picture somewhere, and don't really want to look over 5 computers to try and find it. From a repair standpoint, pop-rivets are a really bad thing, as much of the time, drilling them out causes some damage to the paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 thank you, KG. i now have some cred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
en480c4 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 thank you, KG. i now have some cred. You might think so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 well at least with respect to the pop-rivets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceboy Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 This is all great info. I have a PPX Slam and so far it's working great. But I have read posts about them arriving with some issues. I hope he irons out the issues with his amps though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 This is all great info. I have a PPX Slam and so far it's working great. But I have read posts about them arriving with some issues. I hope he irons out the issues with his amps though. correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you end up with my old PPX3 slam? headcase fam 4ever, muthafucka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanoha Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I know a number of Aristeaus owners who would beg to differ By the way, tkam, what happened with the Aristeaus? (Other than obscenely long wait time.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purk Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 well at least with respect to the pop-rivets And is that like less than 1% out of the amp he bulit? My SDS is one of the first amp that he built and for the past 4 years, I had one problem and it was repaired under the 7 years warranty policy. The repair took 1 month. My SDS is approaching 7,000 hours and it still run like new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 no one has any true idea what percentage of pop-rivet SP amps are out there, though based on what's been said it's probably very low, but it still doesn't negate the fact that the one i got had pop-rivets and for all the nitpicking about my saying it had been locked at least it was factual. what went wrong with your SDS? how long ago did you get it fixed? if the problem isn't the owners fault or negligence does the SP warranty cover out of pocket shipping back and forth from SP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 So there are 1, maybe 2 confirmed amps out of hundreds if not perhaps over a 1-2k or more amps that we know of have this riveting? I mean even if it was the case for a certain generation of MPXs (A series that isn't even really being produced anymore... right? Maybe it is. I'm not really sure I thought it got replaced by the other lines and the PPX or something), I think it's pretty crazy to draw a conclusion on Singlepower of today based on that especially when the current lines have done away with this issue. I'm not contesting your other points regarding issues on delivery/wait times... but your point about upgrades is pretty silly. Maybe his site doesnt have a good list of them, but Moon Audio's list is pretty comprehensive as to what they are. I mean you make it sound like its Mikhail's wrongdoing that most people who order amps from him don't go with stock. So he is persuasive and can get people to buy into the benefits they bring.... but still ultimately the decision to make an upgrade/decide if its worth it is up to the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Why do we care? So maybe they were riveted, so what? It makes them harder for Mikhail to repair, so as soon as he got the first one back, he probably stopped. Hey, someone ask Mikhail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fing Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Interesting thread especially as I'd just plunked down a large deposit on a supra. I just bought a house last year and I guess hearing 'optimistic' estimates and having to wait longer for something you want is just a fact of life. I do however feel that any amp that is sold new in excess of $1k, let alone $5k+ should be tested to within an inch of it's life as part of justifying the hefty price tag. If it's not functioning perfectly, then I'm afraid that's just unacceptable and at the very least I'd want the shipping and customs taken care of from his end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purk Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 no one has any true idea what percentage of pop-rivet SP amps are out there, though based on what's been said it's probably very low, but it still doesn't negate the fact that the one i got had pop-rivets and for all the nitpicking about my saying it had been locked at least it was factual. what went wrong with your SDS? how long ago did you get it fixed? if the problem isn't the owners fault or negligence does the SP warranty cover out of pocket shipping back and forth from SP? It took him one month to repair and it was covered under the 7 years warranty. I can't recall anyone offer that kind of warranty in the headphone amp market. I'm not posting here to protect SP, but I did have great experience with them beside the long wait time. I believe it was a diode went bad. Purk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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