trying to achieve the impossible

[Thelonious Monk]

a headphone that handles brutal, percussive death metal with ease, in addition to not sounding cramped whilst playing symphonies. it sucks that two of my favorite types of music are totally diametrically opposed, from a sonic standpoint. the headphone needs to:

- handle pounding double-bass, extremely distorted electric guitar, guttural vocals & thick, accented basslines.. lots of bass impact without getting muddy

- not be bright and sibilant on poorly recorded black metal with lots of tape hiss

- have a decently sized soundstage to handle large-ensemble symphonies and other types of classical music: such as beethoven, ives, schumann, wagner, gorecki, et cetera... again, sibilance hurts here

any suggestions? when i had the hd650, it muddied up a bit with stuff like morpheus descends, immolation and massacra... but i think that may just have been due to a lack of good amplification. grados just don't have the soundstage to handle large-scale classical music. the k501s were great, but lacked the nuts to handle the metal of any sort.

so.. any metal success stories with hd650s? are more expensive headphones (hp1000s? taket "engrish website" h2s?) the only way to go? voice yr opinion today.

[postjack]

Tmonk, like I said on IRC, the only headphone I have heard that fits this bill is the HP2. Whether or not it has a large enough soundstage to handle large classical works is debatable, but for me it was more then sufficient, and it certainly never felt clogged or muddy. At the same time it was able to handle hardcore metal with ease.

[Thelonious Monk]

Tmonk, like I said on IRC, the only headphone I have heard that fits this bill is the HP2. Whether or not it has a large enough soundstage to handle large classical works is debatable, but for me it was more then sufficient, and it certainly never felt clogged or muddy. At the same time it was able to handle hardcore metal with ease.

i could afford one right now, but the problems would be: (a) finding one for sale and beating out other potential buyers ( getting the electronics to do the thing justice.

[Dusty Chalk]

L3000

with aplomb, I might add.

They're not that different -- both are "busy" musics.

[n_maher]

If you haven't bothered to amp the 650s properly I think you're going about this the wrong way. When driven by something with some real balls I don't take issue with much the HD650s do, and at a fraction of the cost of the HP-2s and L3Ks which are going to take every bit the amplifier that the 650s will to sound great.

[Dusty Chalk]

I concur with the necessity for a serious amp. Even something like an AudioValve RKV would do nicely. I used to listen to my 600's out of one for all kinds of music, including metal and orchestral. Very nice combination.

[postjack]

i agree, but i still think the 650s are a little soft for "brutality."

I half way agree with you, and half way agree with the north atlantic treaty organization. In certain shining moments played at loud volumes with the Dynahi, I've found the HD650 can be absolutely brutal from the bass all the way up to the treble. But this is only certain moments.

[n_maher]

i agree, but i still think the 650s are a little soft for "brutality."

And I'd counter that most of the really hard stuff lacks a bit when it comes production value so searching for some ideal headphones that are only going to point out the glaring flaws in the recording seems fruitless.

[hYdrociTy]

hp2 but with quick change liberator-style things. They would be made of solid aluminum, be twice the depth of the liberators, and be able to attach to the headphone frame in seconds with a locking snap, and a pushbutton release.

[Thelonious Monk]

i agree, but i still think the 650s are a little soft for "brutality."

let's keep in mind that i'm just trying to listen to music with all of the instruments being clear, retaining their character, etc -- not to punish my ears. so long as the headphones in question don't run out of gas, clip and get all muddy with metal, i'm fine. if i wanted my skull crushed and ears drilled into by screeching high notes, i'd just buy a military specifications (like the headphone amps pilots use for their helmets) amp and turn my ksc75s up all the way.

[postjack]

well, i'd counter your counter with a "that's just like, your opinion, man."

so i saw a bumper sticker last night. it was black with white text and it said:

"Mark it 8, dude"

I about shit my pants, I'd never seen one of those before.

[n_maher]

well, i'd counter your counter with a "that's just like, your opinion, man."

Lebowski, ftw.

[ojnihs]

I'm still a firm believer that the best headphones for metal that i have ever heard were the 650s. I have not heard the HP-2 or the L3000, so I can't comment on those, but for me, the slightly veiled, laid-back nature of the HD650's really did it for me with death metal. The Grados were way too fatiguing and the visceral nature of their sound made me want to kill myself, but the softness of the 650s did magic for me with metal. I found the sound to be significantly more rewarding.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I vote for ps-1. Will give you more energy for metal over the dry sounding hp1000, yet still have buttery smooth highs for symphonies. Sound stage is less forward then any other John Grado. hd650 sounds slow, veiled and dark in comparison.

Biggie.

[philodox]

He said by comparison.

[philodox]

...or in comparison even. Damn Blackberry.

[deepak]

I don't think the HD650 changes enough with a good amp if you did find it "insert adjectives". Though the only headphone in production that I can think of that I'd still recommend is the HD650...but if you can afford the L3000 they handle metal (yes I know I only listen to Opeth and Arcturus) and classical "with aplomb".

[deepak]

Oh yes I did find that I had to play the HD650 louder than the L3000 when listening to most music (including metal), the closed nature of the L3000 makes drums and basslines sound a lot better even at lower volumes (and regardless of volume I think they handle macro-dynamics better). And it's my preference to spend the most on the transducer, followed by amp or source (whatever you feel gives you more gains).

[Dusty Chalk]

in my experience the 650s aren't slow, veiled or dark at all when paired with an amp that has some muscle.

I have a feeling it's also a function of whether or not you're deaf at higher frequencies or not. The people who have the higher frequencies attenuated (without being painful) will prefer the brighter headphones without finding them overly edgy/bright/whatever.

Or you could switch to something less laid back, such as the Beyer DT880.

[postjack]

Or you could switch to something less laid back, such as the Beyer DT880.

I still haven't heard this headphone. I would like to. I remember enjoying the DT990 '05 but that was a long time ago.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I still haven't heard this headphone. I would like to. I remember enjoying the DT990 '05 but that was a long time ago.

My ears are allergic to that headphone.

Biggie.

[darkless]

To my ears the DT880 was a rather boring headphone with a recessed midrange. That was two years ago when I compared it to the HD650 and K701.

[Dusty Chalk]

You may want to try the new model before you totally give up on it. I didn't hear the slightly recessed midrange, but then again, I heard a recabled pair on a balanced max. I've also heard people who didn't like the earlier pair like the more recent pair.

[darkless]

Ah, I see. Anyway, I still found it lacking compared to the senns and AKG, so I probably won't bother with it again.

[aerius]

I still say the best solution is to have 2 headphones. There are some things which my K340 can't quite do, which is why I have the Grado 225. If I'm going to have a Slayer-fest, I'm reaching for the Grados.