deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Alright so I'll probably be able to get these beauts sooner than I thought I was eventually going to get one of the "great" 300B amps, either the Frankenstein MKII or Cardinal X2. But for the time being I need a more affordable solution since the speakers will set set me back quite a bit. I've received this design for a 45 amp from a gentleman on SH: I believe as little as 2 watts should be fine with these speakers, but every time I've heard them I recall the 300B blocks putting out 8 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 how much are you willing to spend? Under $700. It doesn't make much sense to spend more since they'll only be used temporarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I wish I wasn't so busy right now. I've got my eye on building a set of Bottlehead mono blocks and those would probably work pretty sweet for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I wish I wasn't so busy right now. I've got my eye on building a set of Bottlehead mono blocks and those would probably work pretty sweet for you. I've thought about those as well. But the guy that recommended the 45 amp said it did sound better than the Bottlehead 2A3. I hate these incremental "upgrades" hopefully the speakers will sound good with the B22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Well, considering the the bottlehead kit is $1250 it might be a bit of a stretch to think that you're going to be able to buy or have something built that'll better it for half that. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Well, considering the the bottlehead kit is $1250 it might be a bit of a stretch to think that you're going to be able to buy or have something built that'll better it for half that. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it seems unlikely. The Paramour II is $680 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 How long do you think to use this meantime amp? If only a month or two, why not borrow someone's something, even if not ideal. If you're talking longer, I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 This might work and it's only an extra $200 to get them fully assembled. Given I have no idea on the quality of their assembly work. You could always buy the kit and harass Nate to build it for you . http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ladyday.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 How long do you think to use this meantime amp? If only a month or two, why not borrow someone's something, even if not ideal. If you're talking longer, I get it. I don't know anyone I could borrow such an amp from. I'm not sure how long I'm going to use them, as I was hoping to get one of the 300B amps used. Though there was a good deal on 'Gon for a 6C45PI/300B amp. This might work and it's only an extra $200 to get them fully assembled. Given I have no idea on the quality of their assembly work. You could always buy the kit and harass Nate to build it for you . http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ladyday.htm A bit more than I'd want to spend for an amp I'd more than likely upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 The Paramour II is $680 I was thinking more along the lines of the Paramount SE, or a NOS kit of the "Afterglow" kit that they used to sell. I know a shop that has a kit on consignment that I'd love to buy and build, I just have no use for it and of course lack the time to build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 But for the time being I need a more affordable solution since the speakers will set set me back quite a bit. I've received this design for a 45 amp from a gentleman on SH: Have fun getting that amp stable, you might get lucky and have it work, but more likely than not you'll spend a week or more trying to get the damn thing to stop oscillating, and then still wonder why it doesn't sound right, because it's still oscillating, but at MHz frequencies. High transconductance tubes such as the 5842, WE417A, and especially the 6C45P need damn good grounding and wiring layout, and they may also need to be properly shielded & terminated. Been there, done that, no fun at all. Also, feeding the 5842 off the cathode of the 45 which is biased with a VR tube is not going to help things out, VR tubes go inductive at high frequencies which can lead to all kinds of wonky things. Personally, I'd build Gordon Rankin's Bugle 45(PDF file) for now and then see how things go. Or your could build my P-P ECC40 Amp with 6BL7 output tubes and a yellow instead of blue LED and bump the voltage up to 350V or so for more headroom. It'll run a set of 97dB speakers just fine in a small room so it should have no problems with the even more efficient Duos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Have fun getting that amp stable, you might get lucky and have it work, but more likely than not you'll spend a week or more trying to get the damn thing to stop oscillating, and then still wonder why it doesn't sound right, because it's still oscillating, but at MHz frequencies. High transconductance tubes such as the 5842, WE417A, and especially the 6C45P need damn good grounding and wiring layout, and they may also need to be properly shielded & terminated. Been there, done that, no fun at all. Also, feeding the 5842 off the cathode of the 45 which is biased with a VR tube is not going to help things out, VR tubes go inductive at high frequencies which can lead to all kinds of wonky things. Personally, I'd build Gordon Rankin's Bugle 45(PDF file) for now and then see how things go. Or your could build my P-P ECC40 Amp with 6BL7 output tubes and a yellow instead of blue LED and bump the voltage up to 350V or so for more headroom. It'll run a set of 97dB speakers just fine in a small room so it should have no problems with the even more efficient Duos. Thanks man. iirc the Duos are 104 db/w 8 ohm nominal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 what is the attraction to these horns? the horns i've heard didn't do it for me at all, but i'm a neutrality guy... Well so far they're the best speakers I've heard by a large margin. My impressions in my other thread still hold true after hearing the Duos in different systems. I've heard shitty horns (and way too many bunk single driver speakers) as well and they (obviously) didn't do it for me. I like neutral too. Believe me I wouldn't be pursuing them otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 ah, ok, so they don't have that Klipschorn midrange honk, i'm guessing... Definitely not... Though I do think the Heresys are super fun speakers to rock out with and I would get a pair if I could find some salvageable ones for cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 what is the attraction to these horns? the horns i've heard didn't do it for me at all, but i'm a neutrality guy... admittedly i've only heard klipsch and jbl horns. You managed to hear 2 of the least neutral horns around, well, maybe not quite that unneutral but they're pretty non-neutral as far as horns go and pretty much define the "horn sound". I heard an Uno a long time ago and it was not nearly as coloured as the Klipsch, can't remember too much else about it though since it was so far back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 You managed to hear 2 of the least neutral horns around, well, maybe not quite that unneutral but they're pretty non-neutral as far as horns go and pretty much define the "horn sound". I heard an Uno a long time ago and it was not nearly as coloured as the Klipsch, can't remember too much else about it though since it was so far back. I've heard an Uno (don't know the version, iirc it's sort of new so it might be the only generation) and the Duo is definitely a nice step up. Biggest weakness with it was the bass and lower midrange inconsistencies, which was adding most of the colorations. room placement and room size is hard for those, though... Really wouldn't matter if I could find a pair under $200. Would make for a sweet project, an all DIY system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozebuttons Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Dared vp300 amps sound very good with the Duos,Heard my pair on a pair of duos at a audiocircle Rave.No preamp needed as they have thier own volume control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immtbiker Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Dared vp300 amps sound very good with the Duos,Heard my pair on a pair of duos at a audiocircle Rave.No preamp needed as they have thier own volume control. It was scary how good the Duos sounded with the Dared's at that meet. The Duo's were set up in a room that was an echo chamber and the tubed Dared's tamed the Avantgarde's nicely with very little power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I was eventually going to get one of the "great" 300B amps, either the Frankenstein MKII or Cardinal X2. Even though they're rather costly, you might want to add the Artemis Labs SP-1 and DP-2 to the list. The former is a SE 300B and the other is a push-pull 2A3 with transformer phase splitters. I haven't been able to do a direct comparison with the Coincident or Wavelength, but I've heard them with the same CD player and very similar turntables, only the speakers & cables were different. Summary, the Artemis gear is scary good, it's top tier stuff along with the Wavelength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Even though they're rather costly, you might want to add the Artemis Labs SP-1 and DP-2 to the list. The former is a SE 300B and the other is a push-pull 2A3 with transformer phase splitters. I haven't been able to do a direct comparison with the Coincident or Wavelength, but I've heard them with the same CD player and very similar turntables, only the speakers & cables were different. Summary, the Artemis gear is scary good, it's top tier stuff along with the Wavelength. The Artemis gear is way more than I'd like to spend on amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 You're buying speakers which retail for $20k, now is not the time to scrimp on amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 You're buying speakers which retail for $20k, now is not the time to scrimp on amps. The Artemis Labs are $18k and nearly $10k (respectively) Plus I'm not paying anywhere near retail for the speakers, they can be found for under $10k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 The Artemis Labs are $18k and nearly $10k (respectively) Yeah, but that's the MSRP, I'm pretty sure you can find them for a lot less. My local dealer quoted me around $13-14k for the SP-1, brand new. Do it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted November 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Yeah, but that's the MSRP, I'm pretty sure you can find them for a lot less. My local dealer quoted me around $13-14k for the SP-1, brand new. Do it!!! Yeah but the amp is still way overkill for how sensitive these speakers are, I'm sure it's awesome if someone actually needed the full power of XLS tubes. And (used) $3k-5k seems much more reasonable in the amps:speakers $ ratio. You know retail on my source is only $2500? And I have no intent to upgrade it (upgrading my vinyl rig) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanoha Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Yeah, leave financial room for upgrading and experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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