kevin gilmore Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yep the end of analog! Most people aren't paying attention that from now on, all audio, not just the surround sound stuff is going to be digital delivered over hdmi. Things are going to change and there is going to be lots of new product. With lots of bugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yep the end of analog! Most people aren't paying attention that from now on, all audio, not just the surround sound stuff is going to be digital delivered over hdmi. Things are going to change and there is going to be lots of new product. With lots of bugs. DigitalFET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Well it makes sense right?? isolated ultra speed digital delivered to the amplification device. true analog step attenuator after the dac controlled by the CEC channel. No ground loops ever. No more stupidass discussion of expensive interconnects... Of course we will still have power cords to argue about, but i see that finally taking a back seat to everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Well it makes sense right?? isolated ultra speed digital delivered to the amplification device. true analog step attenuator after the dac controlled by the CEC channel. No ground loops ever. No more stupidass discussion of expensive interconnects... Of course we will still have power cords to argue about, but i see that finally taking a back seat to everything else. I guarantee Virtual Dynamics will make a garden hose HDMI cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Nice to see I live in a more civilized part of the world, analog will be in use here for at least 10 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yep the end of analog! Most people aren't paying attention that from now on, all audio, not just the surround sound stuff is going to be digital delivered over hdmi. Things are going to change and there is going to be lots of new product. With lots of bugs.What about "records"?Well it makes sense right?? isolated ultra speed digital delivered to the amplification device. true analog step attenuator after the dac controlled by the CEC channel. No ground loops ever. No more stupidass discussion of expensive interconnects... Of course we will still have power cords to argue about, but i see that finally taking a back seat to everything else.I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. But alas, it will not be. Power will always be analog. Speakers will always be analog. Music, itself, will always be analog, even if it's an analogue of analog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 I guarantee Virtual Dynamics will make a garden hose HDMI cable. they won't be able to make a cable that meets the specifications. but they could still take a cheap HDMI cable and put a garden hose on top of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 they won't be able to make a cable that meets the specifications. but they could still take a cheap HDMI cable and put a garden hose on top of it Don't forget to fill it with sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Don't forget to fill it with sand. Does that cost extra as an upgrade over the ferrite crap they normally use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted December 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Dyna-fet! Dyna-fet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 What about "records"? You have seen the USB turntables right??? Some of them are quite expensive. A/D conversion, then RIAA in the digital domain... Power will always be analog. Ummmm... those ICEpower amps sure sound pretty nice for the average J6P and even for some of the non-average types. Speakers will always be analog what about those new ionovac things that run on a 50khz square wave... hdmi connectors won't fit thru a standard garden hose... Also won't fit thru a standard conduit either, which is why i'm using hdmi to dual ethernet converters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 No, I meant power, as in AC from the wall. And yes, I know you're playing devil's advocate, I'm not falling for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 No, I meant power, as in AC from the wall. And yes, I know you're playing devil's advocate, I'm not falling for it. You will fall for it sooner or later. Who is to say that AC power from the wall is analog. Many of the el-cheapo UPS's available don't put out anything even close to a sine wave. Much more like a stepped square wave. And the new series of really expensive stuff (like the emerson/liebert units) actually use some very high frequency as a pwm wave to make the output look like 60 hz sine waves. And in doing so, they reduce the size and weight almost a factor of 3. A unit i just installed today weighs less than 100 lbs and puts out 6kw. Virtually all of the newest units in the 20kw to 100kw range now do this as compared to the older ferrups units that make sinewaves with a very large transformer. Sooner or later if you put solar panels on your house, you would be very interested in the much higher efficiency these things can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigiPete Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 You will fall for it sooner or later. Who is to say that AC power from the wall is analog. According to quantum mechanics, analog is just a high resolution view of a world made up of only quantum states (a form of digital). I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Who is to say that AC power from the wall is analog.I am.Many of the el-cheapo UPS's available don't put out anything even close to a sine wave. Much more like a stepped square wave.And that's digital...how? A square wave is just as analog as a sine wave. I mean, define your terms. What is "digital"? It's not just pulse width modulation, or PCM or DSD or even hysteresis loops (analog tapes had to overcome hysteresis even when recording and playing back in analog), it's taking time-sliced samples of an analog signal and then representing them as numbers in a model. A true digital power source would be a zero value, followed by a half period-cycle of undefined value, followed by a zero-length timeslice of full-on, follwed by a half period-cycle of undefined value, followed by full off again (assuming two-stage values -- or perhaps it'd be "full on" followed by negative "full on"...whatever). Digital has no analogue in the real world, it's just a way for computers and other digitally-based storage media to convert continuous values into discrete numbers that are contiguous without being continuous. So I repeat, don't give me these "what if" scenarios without defining your terms. (And yes, I'm having just as much fun with this as you are.)that can be argued. digitally made music piped into a brain via, say, magnetic induction, would be much closer to all digital than digital to analog, assuming that the quasi-digital model of neuron activity is correct.(waves a shovel in Jacob's general direction) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Malarky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'll have to get back to you on that. You'll excuse me if I don't take wikipedia as a canonical reference for that kind of information, but the use of examples makes me think that there might be something to it (DNA is, indeed, intuitive). But I think there's more to it than just "discontinuous units", but also how they're used. My power example is discontinuous units; but in KG's power example, the power needs to be there the entire time for it to work -- the "form of square wave" is a red herring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 But it needs to be zero, it can't just be undefined. It's not discrete -- it's continuous. I mean, it's really not zero, it's A/C with a DC offset in that example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I do hope Linear Systems gets their act together in 2009 c-c-c-combo breaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 dyna-fet dyna-fet! x2 on the linear systems and their shit-together-getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I do like the name GBF and it makes sense HeadWize: DIY Workshop > My newest in the dyna series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 and it doesn't really need to be zero, any way. you're being inconsistent, when you look at digital computer fab and architecture. in a computer, values under a certain amount count as zero, and values over a certain amount count as 1 (and values out of range are errors that need to be taken into account by software). even in the best designed, best made, theoretically perfect chips, it's never a perfect on/off count, due to quantum effects. take manufacturing error and material imperfections into account, and a computer that works in the way you are describing would, well, not work.But that's just the analog model of a digital world. From the computer's perspective, it doesn't know 2.2V from 2.27 -- all it knows is "1". It's the classic image of converting an analog signal to a digital one that I'm thinking of, the one where it assigns a number to a value at a certain point in time. You're not sympathizing with the computer, I don't think. I mean, in digital transmission, ones and zeros are usually represented by transitions between two values, not even a constant state value. It's not how it's represented that is important, it's the fact that they are discretely-stepped, discretely-timed values that's important. It's entirely an abstract concept. I mean, even when you digitize (and back), one always has to take into account the limitations of whatever digitization process (or back) was used, to accurately re-render the analog signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Pfff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I used the entirely different "Pfff". Are you so megalomaniacal as to believe you own the patent to all words that start with "pf"? What are you going to do about Pfefferneusse, are you going to sue the entire country of Germany, as well as all American housewives of German descent? You're in for a world of hurt. I declare "fair use". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I used the entirely different "Pfff". Are you so megalomaniacal as to believe you own the patent to all words that start with "pf"? What are you going to do about Pfefferneusse, are you going to sue the entire country of Germany, as well as all American housewives of German descent? You're in for a world of hurt. I declare "fair use". pfair use even.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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