n_maher Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Ouch. Big bad ouch indeed. Fawk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crappyjones123 Posted November 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 going to try to find if anyone has any tube testers in the engineering dept. hopefully someone has one. anyone have any helpful remarks? this makes me rather sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceboy Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 going to try to find if anyone has any tube testers in the engineering dept. hopefully someone has one. anyone have any helpful remarks? this makes me rather sad Hey CJ. I just PMed you a while back. I'm sorry you are having these issues and I'm feeling sad and terrible . I no expert in tube amps, but I will definitely try and help you out as much as I can. I hope that the tubes isn't dead. I know you don't want to use the amp, but did you try to plug in the 5998 and 6080 in the right socket and it didn't glow which is how you determined those tubes died as you mentioned the left socket is the one with the issues? I don't think this will help but plugging it in somewhere else. I'm not sure. Those are just things I would try and do with my limited knowledge of tube amps. Please keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 going to try to find if anyone has any tube testers in the engineering dept. hopefully someone has one. anyone have any helpful remarks? this makes me rather sad cj, Oz has a tube tester but might be out of town for the weekend. I will stop by the store to see if he is in. If so, you may want to bring the amp and tubes down this weekend. I will get back to you tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceboy Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 cj, Oz has a tube tester but might be out of town for the weekend. I will stop by the store to see if he is in. If so, you may want to bring the amp and tubes down this weekend. I will get back to you tomorrow. Thanks for your help Mike. I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Let's go back to my theory -- sounds like you're having connection problems at the pins/socket of the tubes. If you are, that will kill tubes. So that's what I think your problem is, as I've said before. Hirsch uses a silver coating to make sure each pin gets a good solid contact with its corresponding socket, you may want to try something like that (but be careful not to create a connection between adjacent pins, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 cj, until further notice don't use anything other than inexpensive tubes in the output positions. Also, I'm not convinced the tubes are dead, we should try to get them into a known good amp or at least tested to see. If you need some inexpensive tubes for testing the amp let me know, I've got a couple pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceboy Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 cj, until further notice don't use anything other than inexpensive tubes in the output positions. Also, I'm not convinced the tubes are dead, we should try to get them into a known good amp or at least tested to see. If you need some inexpensive tubes for testing the amp let me know, I've got a couple pairs. Thanks for everyone's help . I wish I had some output tubes as I could send some as well, but I sent everything I had and even all the extras to CJ. CJ not sure if you are getting my PM messages I've sent, but please contact me via PM when time permits. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirsch Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 You do realize that just about every tube tester manual will tell you to tap the tube as you test it for shorts, right? Actually, no. I haven't seen any tester manual that recommends tapping a tube when testing for shorts. A short is either there or it's not. Where you DO tap a tube is if you happen to have a tester that checks for microphonics (These are few and far between). Essentially, you plug in the tester's headphone, tap the tube (gently!), and listen. This is the same function performed by a headphone amp, so a tubed headphone amp can give you pretty much the same information that a tester checking for microphonics would give you. Also note that a gain stage is likely to be much more sensitive to microphonics than an output stage. It gets more complicated still (doesn't it always?). I just replaced a 2C51 in my SDS. The new tube was microphonic, but not offensively so if not tapped, so I left it in. After several hours of use, the microphonics have disappeared completely, even if the tube is tapped. The tube is now dead quiet (except when music is playing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Actually, no. I haven't seen any tester manual that recommends tapping a tube when testing for shorts. The manual for my Jackson 648S does and I've seen it in others so I guess we've just been looking at different manuals. The point stands though, it's highly unlikely you'd do any damage to a tube by tapping on it. You're certainly not going to cause any sort of thermonuclear meltdown as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotoriousBIG_PJ Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Hirsch uses a silver coating to make sure each pin gets a good solid contact with its corresponding socket, you may want to try something like that (but be careful not to create a connection between adjacent pins, etc.). I did that too. But after a while the silver crap stops being conductive and actually makes things worse. Biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crappyjones123 Posted November 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 none of the tubes were dead quiet from the ones i tried. all of them started exhibiting noise at the 12 o'clock position. the volume knob starts at the 7 o'clock position and ends at the 5 o'clock position. dont know if that says anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 cj, until further notice don't use anything other than inexpensive tubes in the output positions. Also, I'm not convinced the tubes are dead, we should try to get them into a known good amp or at least tested to see. I second both of these -- you need to figure out the problem with your amp, fix it and test it with known good tubes -- new production is fine -- and then once you fix the amp, check your extant tubes to see if they're really broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirsch Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 I did that too. But after a while the silver crap stops being conductive and actually makes things worse. Biggie. I've read that some people have experienced that with Walker SST, which is not what I use. I do use XtremeAV Quicksilver, and have not had any issues in over two years so far. Silver itself does not stop conducting after a period of time. However, there could be issues with some vehicles for holding it in place. All academic to me. Tube pin conductance issues have gone away since I started using the Quicksilver. Even if I had to reapply it now and then, it would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crappyjones123 Posted November 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 fuck, the noise in the left channel is back with a rca tube now. only difference is it sounds like its riding a sin wave. noise starts building, raises and then calms down. and then starts again. just when i had almost started believing mike in that it might just have been a user error 3 different tubes have caused this now...amp issue or just dead tubes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 CJ- Can't you get together with Mike or Vicki or Dom and your amp and try going over what you are doing and what you are experiencing? I know you do not have any tube experience and the type of problems you are having are not easily pinpointed. I cannot understand what is happening from your posts, and the intermittent nature after sounding fine for some period is pretty odd. I don't understand what shipping damage could be blamed for this behavior and I believe Ricey was using the amp without problems before sending it. I don't think the Extreme is that complicated on the inside and flecom could certainly troubleshoot it with you if you can talk to him about getting together. My personal take is that you should try to figure it out before selling off tubes and shipping the amp somewhere else, but I have been biting my tongue so as not to butt in from afar. Good luck either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompon Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Swap left/right tubes and see what happend. If the noise tube is dead quiet in other socket, probably a amp fault. I have asked Mikhail how long for a repair ... "It will take about 3 to 4 weeks total. The process will involve examining the unit and allowing it to tun in test for one week minimum, and one week to do any repairs, so a minimum of 2.5 weeks, maximum of 4 weeks." I hope will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPH Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 I have asked Mikhail how long for a repair ... "It will take about 3 to 4 weeks years total...". FTFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompon Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 hahaha You have no faith ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 CJ- Can't you get together with Mike or Vicki or Dom and your amp and try going over what you are doing and what you are experiencing? I know you do not have any tube experience and the type of problems you are having are not easily pinpointed. I cannot understand what is happening from your posts, and the intermittent nature after sounding fine for some period is pretty odd. I don't understand what shipping damage could be blamed for this behavior and I believe Ricey was using the amp without problems before sending it. I don't think the Extreme is that complicated on the inside and flecom could certainly troubleshoot it with you if you can talk to him about getting together. My personal take is that you should try to figure it out before selling off tubes and shipping the amp somewhere else, but I have been biting my tongue so as not to butt in from afar. Good luck either way. I told him I would go to him and pick up the amp yesterday, see what I can figure out and then take the tubes to Oz to see what's up with them today. I've tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPH Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 hahaha You have no faith ? Hehehe, I was just kidding, it certainly won't take 3 years, but I also have a hard time believing it will only take 4 weeks considering his reputation. Anyway, I think you still have the other very nice SP amp that you brought at the Mtl meet to keep you warm while waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompon Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Yes, I still own my MPX3 ... but when have buyed a "better" amp, it's difficult to hear the smallest model. ;-) I guess more 2-3 month should be more realistic than 4 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Maybe someone w/ DIY skills could form an amp co. that specializes in SP restorations and modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Maybe someone w/ DIY skills could form an amp co. that specializes in SP restorations and modifications. That'd be a pretty un-fun venture if you ask me. Nothing like founding a company that exists for the express purpose of dealing with another company's unsatisfied/pissed-off customers. The other issue would be that a lot of these repairs should be covered under warranty which no third party would be able to offer. cj, you should look into the warranty status of your amp. May be that the repairs won't cost you anything more than shipping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 <snip> May be that the repairs won't cost you anything more than shipping? and waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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