The Head-Case gun thread

[Aimless1]

My brother-in-law owns a safe retailing business, so I was able to get this locally.  I did see that both Amazon and Dean Safe have them in stock.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Aimless1

[Knuckledragger]

This is peripherally related to this thread, and I can't be arsed to post it to Slow Forum: German Saboteur Cache

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Estimate the size of a container. It appears they had no bananas available...

Wait, so "bananas for scale" is a thing?  Dammit, I thought I was just being funny.  Favourite comment:

Schmirgel. When you want to look dapper while blowing things up.

[Hopstretch]

Never been in here before (I don't think) because guns are not my thing. But with an impending move back to the US and the direction of recent events there, have reluctantly concluded that it might be prudent to learn to shoot properly.

So I'll be looking for a 9mm pistol for firearms training, range practice and storage at home. Won't be carrying, so size isn't a priority. Google appears to endorse either a Beretta 92 FS, Glock 17 or Sig Sauer P226.

 What is the HC pew pew crew view?

[MexicanDragon]

.45ACP 1911, obviously. Ed Brown would be high on the list.

**BRENT**

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[guzziguy]

For home defense, shotgun. You can also use it for the gentlemanly pursuits skeet and trap shooting.

[Dusty Chalk]

I was told by police at a home security briefing that the best thing for home defense is a shotgun, so you don't have to aim.  I have one, though I haven't shot it in years.  YMMV.

I also have a .22.  And no, it's not because I am an assassin.  (A lot of gun lovers don't love a .22 because they don't have a lot of penetrating power, but that's exactly why I like it.)

[Grahame]

There are shotguns, then there are head-case shotguns.

[Hopstretch]

This is going precisely as anticipated.

Next stop tactical nukes ...

[Dusty Chalk]

1 hour ago, Grahame said:

There are shotguns, then there are head-case shotguns.

Want.

[Craig Sawyers]

We're talking the guns, right Dusty? 

[grawk]

The sig 226 is a fantastic pistol. I kinda agree with Brent tho with the Ed Brown 1911.

[Hopstretch]

OK I'll bite. What are the pros and cons of a .45?

[Arthrimus]

.45 ACP pros:

1.It's cool.

2.It's fun to shoot. 

.45 ACP cons:

1.It's large and thus firearms that use it have lower magazine capacity than 9mm. Substantially so. 

2.It's generally more expensive than 9mm to train with,  and training is very important. 

My thoughts .45 acp and 1911s:

Cool gun,  cool round.  Great to have in a collection, but if you're looking to buy a gun for protection I'd look elsewhere.  The low ammunition capacity of 1911s is a huge hindrance to their usefulness for personal protection.  They are fine machines, but they are more complex and thus somewhat more failure prone than more modern designs.  There are many things about the 1911's design that John Browning himself later reworked into a simpler, better handgun in the form of the Browning Hi-Power. 

 

I've owned Berettas, Sigs, Smith and Wessons, and 1911s and honestly the best handguns I've ever owned, the ones I shoot the best, that have been the most reliable, and that I use for personal protection both as concealed carry weapons and as nightstand weapons are CZ-75 variants chambered in 9mm. The CZ-75 and it's offspring, in my opinion,  are the most comfortable, elegant, accurate and reliable service weapons you can buy.  

[grawk]

Pros (for 1911)
Absolute best trigger
Simple design always works
Both active and passive safeties
High stopping power
Many ammunition options

Cons:
Have to learn how to use a safety lever
People in action movies need to reload often

[n_maher]

Not related to the question at hand, although my personal vote for home protection is also the shotgun for many reasons, but those interested in firearms in general might like this:

http://qllcgroup.com/ - it's just a placeholder site as of this morning but the real thing should go live today,

This is a company run by a friend of a friend and very much in the HC way of things.  My friend is their chief engineer.  He and Kevin used to work at Advanced Armaments (Kevin founded it when he was 18) and then they went on to start Sig's silencer division and their pseudo skunkworks division.  They both felt overly constrained there and ultimately decided that Q was what it was going to take to do what they wanted.  Their first products look pretty cool:

1. Bolt action rifle dubbed "The Fix" - the engineer in me loves this thing

2. The Honey Badger - a replacement for the MP5-SD

3. Some silencer stuff - one modular, one not.

If you want to see pics of the stuff their instagram feed is pretty entertaining - https://www.instagram.com/the_official_q/.

[Aimless1]

I'm an avid shooter ... shot guns.  I love sporting clays and skeet.  Trap not so much.  Although I own one 12 gauge, my collection is all 16 gauge, which is not popular and getting harder and harder to find ammo for.  No question a shotgun is the most effective for home defense, especially if you don't mind significant damage to the structure, furniture or applicances.

Decided to get a handgun last year.  First one ever.  Great suggestions so far from people who know a whole lot more than me.  That said, for personal defense I chose the 9mm.  Easier to shoot.  Ammo readily available,  More economical.  An occasional shooter is much more likely to be accurate with 9mm vs a .45.  I chose the Walther PPQ in 9mm.  Absolutely in love with the trigger and feel of the gun.  The heavier weight of a Sig makes it easier to shoot but that's a non issue for me.  My bride decided to shoot as well and she has a Walther PPQ in .22 cal.

Choose what you like and what you like to shoot.  Most gun ranges rent firearms so you should be able to try several before purchasing.

[VPI]

Stretch, come visit me in Chicago, I have all the guns that have been discussed and they let you use large parts of the City as a shooting range with no repercussions. It is a great urban training site.


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[TMoney]

[morphsci]

@Jeff: Did you get the da/sa or the sao legion 226? On the fence about how much better the trigger is on the sao.

[MexicanDragon]

22 minutes ago, VPI said:

Stretch, come visit me in Chicago, I have all the guns that have been discussed and they let you use large parts of the City as a shooting range with no repercussions. It is a great urban training site.


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Stretch, this is going to be the best option, honestly. A flight to Chicago + training/hands-on guidance by someone who knows what they're doing, along with having all the options that you're considering, is going to be easier in the long run than the getting something, using it, second guessing yourself, etc.

To me, a large part of what I like comes down to how it fits in my hand. I have rather large hands, and the 1911 has been the one to fit my hand better than anything else. There have been other things get close, but I didn't like the trigger, or the build of other aspects. I am by no means the most qualified one here to talk about this, (I'd trust Jeff and Dan, unless Dan disagrees with me,) but I've shot a solid variety and there's a lot of crap. Jeff also has the S&W M&P and Springfield XDs you'd want to take a look at as well, though to get them to the point where you'd want them, they'd probably require a couple upgrades.

Let Jeff know when you're coming so he can pic up some more toys.

**BRENT**

[VPI]

I got DA/SA. I always prefer SAO but I cannot really complain about the trigger on this one.


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[MexicanDragon]

I got DA/SA. I always prefer SAO but I cannot really complain about the trigger on this one.


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You can complain about anything.

**BRENT**

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[tyrion]

11 hours ago, Hopstretch said:

Never been in here before (I don't think) because guns are not my thing. But with an impending move back to the US and the direction of recent events there, have reluctantly concluded that it might be prudent to learn to shoot properly.

So I'll be looking for a 9mm pistol for firearms training, range practice and storage at home. Won't be carrying, so size isn't a priority. Google appears to endorse either a Beretta 92 FS, Glock 17 or Sig Sauer P226.

 What is the HC pew pew crew view?

Get a Glock 19, especially if you are going to carry. 1911's are great as are Sigs.  I just don't like DA/SA and find 1911's heavy and bulky for carry everyday, all day.  That's just me.  You need to shoot and decide what's best for you, then get a Glock, just kidding, then get a Glock, really, jk.  Get a Glock.  Learn to shoot from someone.  I highly recommend doing a Goruck Firearm pistol training.  I am far from an expert, and know far less than Jeff, but have done probably 4 different courses, 3 taught by Israeli firearms instructors and it was good stuff and learned a lot.  It was not taught condition 1 (round not in the chamber which is how I carry these days but was taken years ago).  Goruck training is taught for todays likely scenerios, active shooter, malls, etc.  The main instructor is an American, former Israeli Duvdevan and the others are active and former Army SF and Navy Seal, Marines depending on where and when you were to take the course.  It is reasonably priced compared to other courses and what you are taught.  It is no bullshit.  They are available all over the country.  If you were to do it and not too far away (no idea where you are moving) and I was feeling up to it, I would consider joining you. One time course is not enough.  Train and then train again.  It's a big responsibility and needs to be taken seriously.  Let me know if you have any question.

[Dusty Chalk]

4 hours ago, MexicanDragon said:

Stretch, this is going to be the best option, honestly. A flight to Chicago + training/hands-on guidance by someone who knows what they're doing, along with having all the options that you're considering, is going to be easier in the long run than the getting something, using it, second guessing yourself, etc.

Seriously.  Jeff took me shooting once, and it was really enlightening to know how much weight, kick, and just plain comfort in the hand is to a gun.  It's a highly personalized taste, and you really can't know how much you'll like a gun until you shoot it.  The gun I ended up aiming the best with ended up not being the most comfortable, but aim is more important than comfort.  So either rent a bunch of guns, or visit Jeff.