digger945 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 there are pics 'round these parts The thread you started? I think he's talking about the Diverter. Yep. I'de like to see the Alpha too of course, but I'll see it soon enough(before I see a diverter in real life). I have a hard time believing that FLAC decoding causes significant processor overhead on a dedicated music server unless you are using this as your server. Four things come to mind that I omitted from the previous post: 1. He has a product that he is no doubt reaping $ from. 2. If he isn't a digital guru, then I'm sure the bunch he hangs with would probably make up for anything he lacks. 3. I really have no earthly idea, really. 4. See #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Four things come to mind that I omitted from the previous post: 1. He has a product that he is no doubt reaping $ from. 2. If he isn't a digital guru, then I'm sure the bunch he hangs with would probably make up for anything he lacks. 3. I really have no earthly idea, really. 4. See #3. He is not the first that made that comment so I was just verbalizing what I think every time I read or hear that. They are making an extrapolation from a fact. It is certainly a fact that decoding a FLAC increases processor overhead. (Fact) Therefore, decoded FLAC will sound worse than Raw WAV (extrapolation). They also assume that there is no cost to using a bigger file, but that will be dependent on where it is stored as well as Bus speed. No free lunches, just lunches that are assumed free. I do not assume that would produce any audible problem unless the file was absolutely huge and the bus speed was ludicrously slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopstretch Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) From a technical perspective, I don't know either. But I've satisfied myself that system load isn't a huge factor by doing a simple test on my own rig. I'll start playing a high-res file with nothing else running on the system, then progressively ramp it up with a variety of menial tasks while continuing to listen. I can discern no differences at all even with everything maxed out and both cores continually pegged at 100%. Not particularly scientific, but good enough for me. Edited October 18, 2009 by Hopstretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 I'de pass a stone to see what's inside(if you can even get it open without voiding the warrantee and it's not covered in epoxy). http://www.head-case.org/forums/home-source-components/5310-ayre-usb-dac-10.html#post252199 demand pics of the stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger945 Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 http://www.head-case.org/forums/home-source-components/5310-ayre-usb-dac-10.html#post252199 I think perhaps there has been a slight misunderstanding. I was referring to the Cryoparts Sonicweld Diverter 24/96 USB to SDPIF Converter that Screaming Oranges opted to purchase in lieu of his losing bid for the Ayre QB-9 on Agon. there are pics 'round these parts:) I finally found them on a thread that I didn't finish reading(BAD Alpha thread). Not the most detailed pics but pics nonetheless. Slightly reminiscent of the 0404 innards. demand pics of the stone That one hurt a little. I'll post a youtube video of the other one coming out if SO takes the Diverter apart(talk about incentive!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlSeibert Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 From a technical perspective, I don't know either. But I've satisfied myself that system load isn't a huge factor by doing a simple test on my own rig. I'll start playing a high-res file with nothing else running on the system, then progressively ramp it up with a variety of menial tasks while continuing to listen. I can discern no differences at all even with everything maxed out and both cores continually pegged at 100%. Not particularly scientific, but good enough for me. I find the notion interesting as I (and some others) have noticed slightly better/different performance from Squeezeboxes, depending in whether the compressed file is decoded in the Squeezebox or on the server. Given that the SB's processor is an itty bitty little thing, it's an intriguing point. Since I have no convenient way of setting up a test in my own rig, I'll just wait till somebody does and lets us all know. In the meantime, I just set the work to be done server-side and I don't worry much about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 I noticed, btw, JayDee posted measurements of the Sonicweld Converter, which were suitably impressive, if not comprehensive. Can't be bothered finding the link though, it's in the review thread I think from about 3 or 4 days ago. I didn't see anything after reading all of his posts. I did see that he measured the ripple and such of some USB buses in response to measurements of the m2tech hiface, but nothing about his own device still. For those who may have missed them over at head-fi, I've included links below to the measurements in question. These tests were made with an M-Audio Audiophile 192 soundcard. First, a baseline test with a cable connecting the SPDIF output to the SPDIF input: SPDIF loopback Next, the Diverter was placed in the otherwise identical signal path: Diverter to SPDIF loopback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 JayDee: I see you have the pro version of RMAA. Have you compared MME, DirectSound, and ASIO, for measurement purposes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaox2 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 For those who may have missed them over at head-fi, I've included links below to the measurements in question. These tests were made with an M-Audio Audiophile 192 soundcard. First, a baseline test with a cable connecting the SPDIF output to the SPDIF input: SPDIF loopback Next, the Diverter was placed in the otherwise identical signal path: Diverter to SPDIF loopback Thanks JayDee, I can't afford risking the $250 restocking fee at CryoParts. I'm looking forward to listening to this in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screaming oranges Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm going forward with low expectations on this product, not because I think it sucks, but because it is as I do with everything in life really (my motto taught to me by my dad when young: Don't expect much. That way, if something bad happens, you'll be ready for it. If something good happens, it'll be even more enjoyable because you weren't hoping for it in the 1st place). Hopefully I'll have my piece by the end of November the latest, that way many can audition it at Mike's meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Just some further pimping for my $30 PC audio solution. It works perfectly into my Buffalo24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 JayDee: I see you have the pro version of RMAA. Have you compared MME, DirectSound, and ASIO, for measurement purposes? Yes, I have run all three. ASIO consistently results in slightly better results. I should also note that there is some uncertainty in the results (as there always is) in the least significant digit, which tends to wander up or down by about one depending on the run. Therefore, I would advise that no one obsess about something like .0002% THD vs. .0001% THD. Noise and rounding errors always come into play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm going forward with low expectations on this product, not because I think it sucks, but because it is as I do with everything in life really (my motto taught to me by my dad when young: Don't expect much. That way, if something bad happens, you'll be ready for it. If something good happens, it'll be even more enjoyable because you weren't hoping for it in the 1st place). I understand, and often adopt a similar viewpoint when trying out new products. On the occasions when one's expectations are exceeded, they are delightful indeed. Naturally, I hope this is your experience with the Diverter. Hopefully I'll have my piece by the end of November the latest, that way many can audition it at Mike's meet. Yes, for sure. It should be significantly sooner than that. Your chassis completed already (except for anodizing), and the remainder of the order is going to be built in the next run (scheduled to start at the beginning of next week), so that you'll get the very latest board revision level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Am I the only one here wondering how much of the $1299 price is cutting edge audio technology and how much is cutting edge industrial design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yes, I have run all three. ASIO consistently results in slightly better results. Cool, that's what I figured. How many cards have you put through the base line tests? I'm looking for a new card to use to perform tests and for A/D conversion: http://www.head-case.org/forums/home-source-components/7148-computer-audio-recommendations.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screaming oranges Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Am I the only one here wondering how much of the $1299 price is cutting edge audio technology and how much is cutting edge industrial design? go to mike's meet! you'll find out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 go to mike's meet! you'll find out Wish that I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Cool, that's what I figured. How many cards have you put through the base line tests? Several - aside from this one, probably most of the Soundblaster models over the last few years, as well as one from Echo - but I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how they performed. There are several sites on the interwebs with comparative soundcard test data, FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Am I the only one here wondering how much of the $1299 price is cutting edge audio technology and how much is cutting edge industrial design? NVM. Edited October 20, 2009 by Voltron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Am I the only one here wondering how much of the $1299 price is cutting edge audio technology and how much is cutting edge industrial design? It was my intent to offer a blend of both. I'm not under any delusions of this settling the debate, but if my perspective as the designer is of any interest, I've already written rather extensively about these questions over at Head-Fi: Sonicweld Diverter: comments about the design, from the designer - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio Sonicweld/Cryo-Parts Diverter 96/24 USB to SPDIF Review - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio If, after enduring those threads, anyone still has questions, I'll do my best to answer them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Are you joking? Isn't it just a small box? So, bigger = better? Why? His other stuff is more form than performance... If you're speaking from personal audition experience, I certainly respect your opinion. But if not... well, that's a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 So, bigger = better? Why? If you're speaking from personal audition experience, I certainly respect your opinion. But if not... well, that's a different matter. You can look up and see that I edited my post because I had the funny idea that people in the Wavelength WaveLink thread were talking about that item, which resembles a rectangular floorwart. I was mistaken so I deleted it after realizing that Morphsci was talking about your shiny device. I have no experience with the Diverter or anything else you have done to my knowledge, and wasn't commenting on it. But I appreciate your implied warning against speaking about things we don't know anything about. None of us here want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopstretch Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I've already written rather extensively about these questions over at Head-Fi: Sonicweld Diverter: comments about the design, from the designer - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio Sonicweld/Cryo-Parts Diverter 96/24 USB to SPDIF Review - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio If, after enduring those threads, anyone still has questions, I'll do my best to answer them here. While I know better than to make solid claims without having heard it...... your first link says essentially nothing, and scootermafia is a grade-A fuckwit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 You can look up and see that I edited my post because I had the funny idea that people in the Wavelength WaveLink thread were talking about that item, which resembles a rectangular floorwart. I was mistaken so I deleted it after realizing that Morphsci was talking about your shiny device. I see that now - sounds like it was a case of unfortunate timing in that I had begun composing my response before you deleted your post. Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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