Tyll Hertsens

Yeah, well... If I want them to do the work and take ownership of the jobs, I also can't violate their space and pace. Now that I can help you with. I think we have made some Max modules for you with long pins for you. I'll get ahold of Jamey and make sure they get off to you soon. (Yes, sufffffer all you poor bastards out there! You're going to regret the day you didn't become a HeadRoom fanboy early on. Your fine fingered friend TheSloth gets automatic new module shipments from us....no charge!)

You'll have to email [email protected] with that one. You know, tht's just what I was asking this morning. It looks like all the amps are shipping with new modules now. They told me that they want us to "officially" announce at the National Meet.

No. I'm in a rush to make your wallet wail in agony. (I just had to say something boorish before you got the wrong idea.)

Well, it's true that it's the cheap products that are hard to build. So, many compromises! But it also means that that is where there is the most room to improve. In this case, it's really that Analog Devices has done a bang-up job with their new part. Joe W. our engineer has been talking to the guy that designed the 8397 and has sent a couple of prototype designs off to him to play with. I think they've been talking about trying to get AD to build a chip with a single part (instead of dual) so he can use a single 8397 as a rail splitter. Anyway, we didn't really do all that much except incorporate a new part into an existing plastic enclosure. The real work was done by AD---we just made that work available to headphone users as cheap as we could.

Man! Somebody slow down that edit time out. I'd like to add a couple of thoughts. I don't really think that I've allways said improvements are "substantial". But I wouldn't be doing my job if we worked hard only to get modest gains. I think we got a substantial gain in this case, so that's what I said. These things are hard to nail down; if I said we got a 18.6% improvement in sound quality, you could rightly say, "What the hell are you talking about?!" So, I said substantial because it felt like more than a modest improvement, but less than a dramatic improvement. Here's quotes from Jude and Old Pa who use words like "significant" and "meaningful improvement" when comparing the old to new. Sounds right in line with what I'm saying. But, hey, YMMV. Time marches on; better parts become available.

The new 8397 is just quite good. I don't really know what else to tell you. I would have said it was a modest improvement if I felt it was, but it seems pretty obviously better to my ears. The old AirHead used a descrete output stage that was pretty old school; it had good bass control but lacked finesse. The new AirHead with 8397 is substantially more articulate and clearer sounding.

Yeah, I think it's a substantially better amp.

The new Air/BitHead uses that 8397 chip as its output amp, that's the one that all the DIYers are happy over these days---it does sound pretty good. The DAC chip is the 2902 USB DAC, it's the chip that is in just about all the USB amp devices around. Competitors? Well, I haven't heard the Meier Portacorda MKIII, but that would be the competitor. I don't know of any other inexpensive, plastic cased, USB capable amps.

No. The Micro controller is in there just to do all the switching logic. Basically, you use the microcontroller to interpret front panel switch movement and then set various relays in the box to accomplish what the user wants. This also allows you to use simple momentary switches on the front panel and the audio doesn't have to be routed to near the panels every time you need to switch something. The micro controller also runs the display; it's basically the brains for the box. The software and hardware catagory for this type of in-box control is called "embeded systems". This is a whole area of expertise that we are currently working on accumulating in house. Again, not rocket science, but a lot of work. <HeadCase branded communication style>Fuck you very much, Kevin. You'll make my head swell.</HeadCase branded communication style>

May be more trouble than it's worth, but there are possibilities. If you could really get the hang of it you might be able to make battery conserving portable amps. Saddly, though, I can't get HeadRoom to the size I want ($50 million annual gross sales, currently just under 1/10th that) and do it without getting my hands on a bigger market. We are and allways will be about headphones, but we are also about having your own intimate listening place, a refuge for the pleasures of your music, a haven of harmony, a get-away. And if your going to solve the problem of turning your destop into this sanctuary of auditory pleasure, you have to integrate the whole enchillada. If I just did headphones and someone else just did "desktop audio" the gear would compete for the desktop. The whole reason for the desktop line, in the long run, is to create a market area called the high-end audio desktop. You not only need to keep improving the performance of the product, but you also have to continue to improve the feature set. Other things to add to the list would be: remote control; the ability to answer the phone (and hear it ring) without taking your headphones off; DSP features (Dolby Headphone, digital HeadRoom HRTF); internal rechargeable batteries (for portable products); etc. For us just to get "lock lights" for the DACs we have to be able to incorporate microcontrollers (lightweight microprocessors). Additionally, serving our core market means making tube amps; so we need to go there. So, yeah, It's a big problem having enough resources to keep improving old products and developing new ones. But we can't leave doors open to other to come and compete in markets we want. If we do nothing to gain control of the audiophile desktop, and someone else comes in and integrates the solution first we're in trouble. Being first has big benefits. Remember, driving headp[hones isn't really all that hard. Look at PS audio, a very nice product right of the bat. Your right we have to keep improving, but the scope of the problem is wider than you may have imagined. That's one of the things we are working on and the real answer is a completely new product witrh a microconroller and a rechargeable lithium polymer batter inside. Yup. in more ways than one. This latest release of modules wil be the last in that form. Not only is space a limitation, but if we put microcontrollers in the box we will be able to completely switch out the crossfeed electronics so that with the crossfeed off we can get rid of the input buffers and crossfeed summers. The reason we have had such a hard time competing on straight sound quality is because with the crossfeed off you are still listening to twice the active stages that you would do in a non-crossfeed amp. Actually I think the real solution there would be a unit much like your convertable where you can pop off a rubber plug in the top of the unit and replace a socketed module. It's our belief that if you do your audio ground correctly you gain very little with an active ground channel. The problem is ROI (return on investment) The market just isn't big enough for those kinds of things to be strongly worth the effort. While the "hard core" audiophile is the center of who we are, we have to be able to reach out to broader audiences. I believe our mission is to bring the benefits of audiophile sensabilities to out to a broader world. While headphone audiophiles is who were are, we wish to serve people who love music and can appreciate good sound, and who can afford premium products. Good comments, we're working on it. I can't tell you how hard it is to do all the things mentioned above. One of the most difficult things to accept for the people at HeadRoom is the need to implement 60-80% solutions and then move on to the next thing. It's truly impossible to be who you want to be fast. Patience and the willingness to stare at a huge mountain and still take one step at a time is key.

Shit! Great question, I almost forgot about the speakers thing. First, these are the most kick ass desktop speakers you could possibly imagine. They're not really desktop speakers, but they're small enough and sound UNBELIEVABLE! We have thought about a Desktop Power Amp. It's definately on the list of things to do.... or I should say have to do. We are exploring ideas, however, that make it a potentially long and difficult discussion to get to the finished product. I can't say what that is other than it would cause the amp not to be in the Desktop enclosure at all. We are considering class "D" amplification and have one of the class "D" chip developement kits in house and are playing around with it. Joe is driving the Mission speakers in his office and the crappy little developement kit sounds surprisingly good. We have already evaluated a number of self powered speakers and will be adding that category of product to our web site at some point in the not too distant future. The Blue Sky Media Desk for example sounds bitchen. FYI the panel at the National Meet will be headphone designers only, so I won't be on it.

PLease do! PM me if you'd like, or just shout it out.

Well, you're a bigger man than I. Seriously though, I suppose I was more talking about headphone and amp makers. If this were a cable forum, I think you're participation would feel a little different. I can imagine that on a cable forum if you saw a discussion that was doling out a bunch of bad information you would want to correct it BOTH because you disliked ignorance and thought the community would be healthier if it got good information, and because you knew that an educated consumer would be more likely to understand the subtleties of a high performance product such as Siltech cables. I may also be being a bit too hard on myself, I really am fascinated by the idea of virtual community building and as I really think about it, I'm not sure how much I'm thinking about HeadRoom as I lobby for the community growth. I think it's a terrifically interesting problem (how to build an on-line community) and I am frustrated sometimes that my manufacturer status prevents me from participating as much as I'd like.

I will, in fact; I let Wes Phillips keep the DeskTop he reviewed so that we could send him another and do a side by side. Other publications we're just going to move on to lobbying for other product reviews. And, YES!, I like your avatar very much. I hope I get the chance to view it in person. I didn't tell you, but I spent some time surfing the web the other day for pix of mahogany model "D"s. There is certainly a sturdy look to the beasts, and boy I couldn't believe how ornate some of the 1800s instruments were.

What a sweet bunch of guys! Thank you all for your caring. I've often thought that the moderator board on Head-Fi might be improved in it's ability to function as government if it were open to all for viewing. But I've also always thought that the mods were well intentioned and really weren't hiding anything. I'm sorry. I didn't control my post very well. Thank you for reacting and trying to help me out.

All of which are why I like having you for a fan. I don't need people idolizing me, I want enthusiast fans who truely enjoy our product to have the opportunity to talk about the values the recieve with HeadRoom products. Saddly, however, many people are not as civilized as we might hope, and those folks will spoil the party for the rest of us. I see a long hard slog. I see that slog continuing on Head-Fi. I think it may be a bit of a "grass is greener" fantasy to think human nature will be substantively different here than there. I think building a headphone enthusiast community is worth doing and putting a lot of work into. Why? Because that average consumer is getting ripped off, and the sacred art of music is worth better treatment than that. I think Head-Fi has NEVER found it's purpose. That purpose is to make broad expert opinion on headphones widely available in a clear manner. I've told Jude any number of times about ideas I've had that should work well with the tools at his disposal to make it easier to access excellent opinions and it hasn't happened yet. No fucking surprise, why should he really put his nose to the grindstone to work on improving Head-Fi when there's nothing in it but hard work, no money, and various pissed off factions of complaint. I see this board as a symptom of the larger issue that Head-Fi isn't well governed....or well enough governed. I don't really blame it on Jude, as he was just doing something very nice by providing the board and bandwidth, and I don't blame it on the mods because there is only so much they can do. But if a Headphone Community board is to live on healthy and growing to the extent possible into the future someone is going to have to make a serious job of it, and Jude has (probably wisely, as one business to run is plenty) not taken on that task. I'll add that that task has significant risk and a lot of work related to it.

So, now I do have rules? What are they exactly? I'd like to make a few comments: One of the mechanisms I saw happen when we had our own forum on Head-Fi is that when people liked our stuff they would tell us in our forum, but when they we're mad they would talk about it in open forums. So there was a bias towards the negative in the open forums. Once we shut down our forum this slowly swung in the other direction and now I think comments about HeadRoom are more even handed overall. You will notice that there are a number of HeadRoom fans---in fact fans of all stripes---that basically talk for manufacturers in the open forums. I will say without guile that I am glad for my relationship with TheSloth, for example, and his willingness to chime in for us is very helpfull. I have never asked him to comment, and I have no expectations of him other than to be truthful to himself. But looked at from the most cynical viewpoint he could be considered a shill. In the end, any long term manufacturer will have a set of fans that speak up for their favorite manufacturers. My point here is that want it or not, prohibit it or not, this place, and others, will be a mouthpiece for biased fans. And that's essentially what it's there for. I think I can and do self regulate fairly well, and I try to toe the line when it comes to self promotion. But make no mistake, even when I am being self effacing I am promoting HeadRoom. I wouldn't do this if I didn't think it did HeadRoom some good. I'll add that I also see community health as good for HeadRoom so many times my focus is on the community growth with the assumtion that that would be good for HeadRoom too. What I'm driving at here is that if manufacturers are allowed to post at all in the forums, they will be acting promotionally. The question becomes, what's the harm in just letting them do so freely? It will prevent all the underhanded manipulations if there is simply no need to manipulate. Let me answer the question above: what's the harm in just letting them do so freely? The answer is: the lost revinue from not charging them to promote. Which brings us back to: what the hell are your trying to do here. You want an alternative to Head-Fi? OK, but you had better start thinking about your business model and how you're going to pay for bandwidth. It may not be an issue now, but it will become one if you compete successfully with Head-Fi. If you replicate Head-Fi's success, won't you simply be replicating its problems. Already this thread is showing you that rules will occur; mods will have a job to do; fur will fly. Personally, I would recommend a closed forum for the hard-cores and find ways to work symbiotically with Head-Fi. Maybe make it so that you have to have 500 posts on Head-Fi befor you can become a member here. That way you could tie your growth to Head-Fi growth (now roughly the 7000th most visited site on the internet). Maybe even find ways to kiss and make up and promote this site tastefully on Head-Fi. All this nasty feeling without a counterbalancing effort to fix the problems is simply distructive in the long run. You may claim that competition is good, but I will counter that deregulation in many industries has done more harm than good for the consumer. Going into head-to-head competition with Head-Fi is probably a bad idea; finding a differentiating position is better; being totally different and finding ways to to symbiotically relate is likely best. Just to throw in a completly diffewrent twist how about: if you are a MOT (member of trade) you can post anywhere, but it will cost you $5 every time you post and you have to be labled in your avatar as MOT. That's every time, not just when doing a promotional post. That way members will know how sincere the MOT is by looking at what they're willing to pay for.

OK I'm being an ass. I was just seeing if I could raise some hackles. I wasn't pissed at all, just joking around, don't change the board's status for me. If it wasn't OK for the info to leak out I wouldn't have said it. A perfect example of the fact that lack of civility just for fun really doesn't work very well in the long run. I have to say that I am concerned about this board creating divisiveness. I don't think it's a bad idea to have a board for the hard core, but I don't particularly like the feeling that the community is at risk of disolution to some extent. Did anyone try to resolve the problems with Head-Fi? I've said it before: Head-Fi needs some type of governing body that is able to legitimately deal with conflict.

Geez! One little schmirky comment and the thread gets moved; I'm told to send a PM when info is public; and I get a bunch of hummina-hummina-hummina. Are there rules?

What! Not an invitation only forum anymore! What the fuck is going on around here! You guys are completely disorganized! I'm totally wasting my post count here. You guys let me know when you've figured out who the hell you are.

Me too! I think it's idiotic for HeadRoom not to be in tube amps. But you're right, I only have so much money, so I can only do so many things. What to do? No shit, what to do? This is a private forum; I'm willing to talk a little more freely as long as it stays that way. Which should I make as an interim product: DAC; balanced DeskTop; or HA2? nI'd be interested in your opinions.

Ha ha ha ha ha! I quoted you on that. And you're right. And I'll let you guys know what transistors we're using but I think the DIYers will recognize them. They do sound amazingly good though.

Well, we'd probably do an HA2 type amp first, and them a 300B. And Pete would be involved either way.

Sure, here. About a week we'll officially announce it, but I don't mind if you guys play a few mind games "over there", just nothing official yet. And, boy, this is pretty wierd, having this other...underground forum. Pretty wierd.

BTW, this is probably a good place to mention it as it is specifically related to the OP. As Recstar24 so legitimately pointed out our amps really haven't quite kept up with the state-of-the-art solid-state crowd. The current module was first designed over two years ago, and times have changed. We've gained some ground in the DAC area, and in the over-all looks, but we have been dissapointed with the amp electronics...bottom line the HA5002 just didn't cut it in the balls department. So we've been doing some work on modules over the last year and have found something we really like. It did seen a little early to revamp the module so we decided we were going to wait to introduce the module until Stereophile or some other magazine realized that you have to measure headphone amps into 20 ohm loads to get a good feel for how the amp would work with dynamics and low impedance cans. Well, guess what?! JA decided that he needed to measure down to 50 ohms on our DeskTop Amp. If you look at the Stereophile data you can see that the HA5002 doesn't measure---or sound---great below 100. The result is slightly less snappy articulation and cleanliness of sound as you might hear on the current state-of-the-art crop of headphone amps; and probably results in Recstar24s (an others) less than enthusiastic impression of the outright performance of our amps. So, currently all Micro, Desktop, and Home modules shipped are the new design; Max modules will be shipping by the end of next week. The new design is essentially the same in the input buffer and crossfeed implementation, but the output amp is our own spin on the Diamond Buffer design. They sound SICKLY good. You can ask Sloth, he's been listening to them for about a month.