recstar24

Thanks for the rec, yeah I think coaxial is a good option. I appreciate the headsup.

I think I may be getting close... Hammer Dynamics Some pretty good reviews on fullrangedriver forum, audiocircle, audioasylum, DIYparadise, etc. Basically we are dealing with a custom made 12" driver for the bass and mids, crossed over at 10 khz to a tweeter with a 1st order crossover. A 12" driver not only would have good sensitivity but this particular driver is also slated to have a very smooth impedance nominal at 8 ohms. A 12" driver should really have some nice kick as well. It comes in kit form for $650, so I will need to see if I can get someone to build the cabs for me.

welcome audiodwebe! I am glad you found this site. There is a plethora of information here that is very helpful. But hopefully you have some thick skin;) Yes, I should get some info from audioasylum, there high effieciency board is pretty active. Jacob, don't take offense, it's just I think the speakers that the guys here have are waaaayyyyy beyond what I can have, afford, or even be able to drive with only 3 watts max. I believe that is what audiodwebe was referring to. He's a good guy, and the proud new owner of the zana that I used to own:p

...wait a minute...I was wondering why my wallet was starting to cry:palm:

Hell yeah they would, but no way I can power up ribbons with my 3 watts. Coincident Speaker Technology Loudspeaker Page Coincident seems to be the only "hi end" speaker company that is able to make a multi driver design that is very effiecient and SET tube friendly with relative high impedance. The super victory, though expensive, is listed as a 10 ohm speaker, nice and easy for a SET to drive - the cicadas were 12 ohms I think so SET's had a nice easy job driving them and is a big part of their sound and fullness. It can't be that hard to make a speaker that you can pump a couple of watts into or many more. It almost seems like the best speakers require heroic amplification, and I am not even looking for that, just something that plays music in my decent room that I don't have to fuss with, and will play with enough volume to get the air moving. But it seems like the only options are single drivers, and I've already went down that route, so we will see.

(...waving hand in back of classroom...) Helloooo guys, remember me, attention please, focus on me me me thank you:p

Arg, looking at my layout don't think I have the corners for them, if so, I would have bit on cornwalls a long time ago. I would have to reorganize the room completely and I know the wife wouldnt be too happy with that:palm:

Decware's Audiophile Loudspeakers Doubt anyone has heard them, can't find too many impressions, but what are your thoughts on the design?

Yeah I can see where you are coming from. To my ears they mostly share a lean, thin sounding characteristic. The colorations will either align with your musical tastes and listening style or not. If anything the cicadas had the best tone and midrange transparency of all the single drivers I listened to - fostex, lowther, plus all the variations of those drivers in between share that lean thin sound, except the cicadas, which sound quite full and warmish, but they have the speed and coherency of the single drivers. I am not opposed to 2 or 3 way designs, even though I know cheap versions of effiecient 2 and 3 ways are not many. I can think of vintage klipsch like the cornwalls or the smaller heresy's but the cornwalls I don't think I could even fit and the hereseys I really don't have the corners to plug them into to get the bass. Coincident seems to be the one company that can make very efficient multi driver designs but they are expensive.

Unfortunately not - just don't have the time or workstation to devote to such a project. However I am not opposed to commissioning someone (wink wink nate:p)

Hey guys, Well I am trying to start my research into speakers...again. Last time I went into it kind of half assed, and it actually didn't turn so bad last time. Picked up some moth cicadas that mated with my old moth s2a3 and I thought they were pretty great for the price and the fact they were single drivers - very coherent, beautiful midrange, nice full tone, but obviously lacking the low end registers. I would say down to 50 it was pretty solid. the omega hemps had the bass but they were somewhat sharp on the high end and had nowhere near the midrange magic of the cicadas. Budget is probably under a $1000 (unfortunately). Maybe I could swing a littler higher but I should keep it under a grand if not as low as possible. WAF and size in general is VERY important, the room is 18 x 24 but with our current furniture setup in that particular room, my actual listening distance I imagine would be maybe 4-6 feet at most. Do not have much flexibility for placement nor extra budget for room treatment and tuning (unfortunately). Using my moth, the 2a3 outputs 3 watts and I believe the 45 outputs maybe 2 watts max.

Just came in today... They are "burning in" as we speak, and I have to run some errands and do my night thing in a second. Will listen much more later than the 5 minutes that I have so far, but right now the midrange clarity is pretty out of this world. Now to find a cheap pair of EML 2a3's and I will be complete:p

Ah, gotta love the aerius bluntness...and I can say I agree with you on this one. With my previous moth s2a3 I really did dick around with a bunch of NOS 2a3's and 50% had reliability and noise issues and the 50% that were actually functional were more different than better than the generic sovtek or EH 2a3's. The AVVT mesh 2a3's were enlightening to say the least. I just sent my order for EML solid plate 45 tubes and they are being shipped tomorrow - george from tubesusa appears to be very customer service oriented and I have been trying to find one bad thing about him on the web and can't find anything. The former owner of my moth used the EML 45's and used them exclusively, sold every other tube he had. I heard the combo at his place 2 times and the combination was really exquisite. I'm excited to say the least.

How much are the shuguang 2a3c;s jon and 909? There was an audiogon seller trying to push them for $400. I sent him an email linking to an ebay seller that had them for maybe 50-60 a pair. Later on he dropped his tubes to 199. I have sent emails to tubesusa and ram labs about the EML's. George from tubesusa got back to me very quick and seems super enthusiastic, have not heard back from roger at ram labs. Any insight into the experience with those vendors would be highly appreciated.

No cap between driver and output tube, who woulda thunk it! Good ole DC coupled, just the transformer. Makes it even more special, most of the transformer coupled amps out there with speakers have some sort of cap between the driver and output tube or in combination with the output tranny. I do plan on picking up a set of EML 45's sooner than later, but it won't be a fair comparison as I only have the sovtek 2a3's and really don't want to bother with the NOS 2a3 thing again.

Nothing too exciting. The key is that if you look at the amp, there is a "hood" that is underneath the base of the amp. The majority of the point to point wiring is underneath and routed through this area, giving it from glance a clean look. Other than that, you have the output transformers electraprint TM3K-B, polypropylene caps for the PSU, the tube sockets, its actually quite a simple enough circuit, or at least compared to the ZD circuit, is much simpler. I'm happy.

For sure - it is an excellent combination with both amps. It is nice because mike G. still has his ZD in the area and the moth was able to stay here as well.

The above pics are of the original moth s2a3 and are more representative of the artistic nature that the moth gear went towards. Mine has much more of a prototype feel with the plain switches on top to switch between 2a3 and 45 usage, you should see the power supply, it is somewhat of a hack job, but I would say "classic" is a better adjective to describe the aesthetics of moth gear in general.

Yeah, and get this, to the guy I bought the moth from:palm: And in most likelihood when he plans on selling them (sooner than later) I will probably buy them back:p BTW - man did I really underestimate those speakers. They had the sickest midrange not only for a single driver but could easily compete with much better stuff. The hi end was ok smooth but closed in and if you could deal with the lack of uber bass you were set. Very cohesive and could do the spooky realism touch the voices and instruments in front of you easily. ARrrgggg.

Oh I know but the reference is just way too funny, I can understand where it comes from but the more I think about the oxymoronic nature of the term it makes me laugh a bit. Speakers are good - now I have something that can drive them:D Of course with 3 watts from 2a3's and 1.5-2 watts from 45's my options are somewhat limited:palm:

Thanks - don't worry, one of these days I will get very drunk and do some drunk posting in the casino;D

Yeah, I would say the moth is along the same lines, warm neutral:D I would say the moth is more warm neutral and the ZD is more neutral neutral:p

Yeah for sure - this one is a bit different, and the differences lead themselves to a slightly better sound. The film caps in the power supply gives the sound a more organic, liquid presentation, my 1st moth s2a3 that came from JP#'s had electrolytic caps. The biggest thing is the external chassis that houses the power transformer and inductors. My 1st moth has a slight but noticeable background hum with grados. Low enough to be covered by the noise floor in most recordings but present enough to tick you off every once in a while. Most users wouldn't care and I truly didn't but it was there. This moth si2a3/45H is dead black. It also has 3 inputs and my old one only had 1. But the old one wins the looks department. The top plate was a painted black, a really nice looking paint like what you would see on a BMW or lexus, the newer si2a3 on to my model has the more generic looking powder coat finish. The original moth s2a3 also had some really random details as well. The chassis had thick aluminum plates that were polished, acid etched, anodized and gold filled. Inside are silver washers, brass plaques and more. You opened up the amp and these beautiful brass plaques were by the transformers with a detailed diagram showing how the change the output taps to match your speaker impedance, all laser etched into the brass. The port holes were machined out of solid aluminum, polished, and anodized, and the feet were machined out of aluminum bar stock. Only thing I see that carried over is the aluminum feet. Of course the original moth s2a3 retailed at 3500, didn't sell, developed into the si2a3 with some cutbacks was 1600 or so, and pretty much sold out with the review from stereophile helping out.

I really think its more a preference thing, I have the ZD boxed up and that thing is way too complicated to put back in so I only had a chance to compare the two for about 2 hours or so. The ZD is slightly cleaner leading itself to a more neutral sound, whereas the moth has a more full, rounded sound. That is an exaggeration, there are both very close to the middle but one leans over this way, the other leans the other way, if that makes sense. With the grados I think the moth has the slight edge, the bass department is a bit more "developed." The ZD has the edge with the senns, which really just breaks down to the whole OTL vs. transformer coupled debate, as traditionally OTL's perform better with hi impedance and the transformers perform better with the low impedance. When I had the hd25 this was really obvious as the RS-1's sang and the senns sounded like crap with that amp. Considering I am a grado head and I have really learned to love the transformer musicality I am pretty happy. When I get some emission labs 45 I think that will be it.

I figured I would start a thread on the above amp I just picked up. A real beauty and sounds gorgeous. I believe this is the exact model that Kurt owned, Saint1 owns (from James3toe who got it from a user "Bob"), and Nightfall. One of only 5 that Craig built that was supposed to develop into an actual EC 2a3 line with the top of the line black rose being at the top of the lineage. By far the si2a3/45H is the best sounding of the different moth 2a3 iterations and may be slightly better than the ec2a3 version due to the external power transformer and inductor chassis. Power supply is all film caps as well, same output transformers. Now I need to get some 45's and I should be okay.