Tyll Hertsens Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Funny, another one of my questions for the panel of people who aren't you inquired whether anyone was planning to make class D headphone amps. May be more trouble than it's worth, but there are possibilities. If you could really get the hang of it you might be able to make battery conserving portable amps. Sorry to be boring, but just because one can make a product doesn't mean one should. I honestly can't really see the need for a HeadRoom branded speaker amplifier in the desktop enclosure...to me HeadRoom is a hard-core headphone amplifier company, and that's what I and I guess many of their customers like about them. Saddly, though, I can't get HeadRoom to the size I want ($50 million annual gross sales, currently just under 1/10th that) and do it without getting my hands on a bigger market. We are and allways will be about headphones, but we are also about having your own intimate listening place, a refuge for the pleasures of your music, a haven of harmony, a get-away. And if your going to solve the problem of turning your destop into this sanctuary of auditory pleasure, you have to integrate the whole enchillada. If I just did headphones and someone else just did "desktop audio" the gear would compete for the desktop. The whole reason for the desktop line, in the long run, is to create a market area called the high-end audio desktop. I think only in the last few years some serious competition has developed for absolute sound quality in the amplifier market, and it's important to be continually striving to improve the module and main board designs, as well as continued work on crossfeed which although great could be even better. I believe you only have 20 or so employees, some of whom will have nothing to do with designing the amps themselves. That doesn't leave very many man-hours to spread around, and my assumption is that the more products there are, the less thought can possibly go into each one. You not only need to keep improving the performance of the product, but you also have to continue to improve the feature set. Other things to add to the list would be: remote control; the ability to answer the phone (and hear it ring) without taking your headphones off; DSP features (Dolby Headphone, digital HeadRoom HRTF); internal rechargeable batteries (for portable products); etc. For us just to get "lock lights" for the DACs we have to be able to incorporate microcontrollers (lightweight microprocessors). Additionally, serving our core market means making tube amps; so we need to go there. So, yeah, It's a big problem having enough resources to keep improving old products and developing new ones. But we can't leave doors open to other to come and compete in markets we want. If we do nothing to gain control of the audiophile desktop, and someone else comes in and integrates the solution first we're in trouble. Being first has big benefits. Remember, driving headp[hones isn't really all that hard. Look at PS audio, a very nice product right of the bat. Your right we have to keep improving, but the scope of the problem is wider than you may have imagined. Stuff I'd like to see instead: I'd also like to see stepped attenuators with more than 24 positions on them. I also think that the Desktop Portable needs a 21st century power solution. The red brick goes back to day 1 of HeadRoom doesn't it? That's one of the things we are working on and the real answer is a completely new product witrh a microconroller and a rechargeable lithium polymer batter inside. Regarding that absolute SQ, it seems that some of your design options are limited by your modules. Yup. in more ways than one. This latest release of modules wil be the last in that form. Not only is space a limitation, but if we put microcontrollers in the box we will be able to completely switch out the crossfeed electronics so that with the crossfeed off we can get rid of the input buffers and crossfeed summers. The reason we have had such a hard time competing on straight sound quality is because with the crossfeed off you are still listening to twice the active stages that you would do in a non-crossfeed amp. Micro or Desktop module in the Micro? How about both, with a little switch on the front to switch between the two. Actually I think the real solution there would be a unit much like your convertable where you can pop off a rubber plug in the top of the unit and replace a socketed module. I'm also curious about your response to the amps that now employ a 3 channel circuit topology. I don't really understand enough about amplifier design to understand whether the HeadRoom amps achieve the same result through a different means, It's our belief that if you do your audio ground correctly you gain very little with an active ground channel. how about a top of the line single ended amp with 3 PSU's and 3 electronics channels? For your absolute top of the line, your Balanced Max, you have the excellent design of 4 power supplies for 4 modules, each one responsible for one channel. Except what happens when you put in a DAC? I don't know exactly how your impliment it, PSU wise, but it's running off the same supplies somewhere down the line. You have ample room for it in the case, so how about 5 PSU's if the DAC is included. (Or even 6 PSU's, with one for each DAC channel. Or to be totally crazy, as it's balanced, 8 PSU's!) Add $? to the price of the DAC upgrade to include the extra PSU('s) and you have a pretty state of the art Amp/DAC combo. The problem is ROI (return on investment) The market just isn't big enough for those kinds of things to be strongly worth the effort. While the "hard core" audiophile is the center of who we are, we have to be able to reach out to broader audiences. I believe our mission is to bring the benefits of audiophile sensabilities to out to a broader world. While headphone audiophiles is who were are, we wish to serve people who love music and can appreciate good sound, and who can afford premium products. Finally, something that's actually practical, and on topic: On your Desktop Amp order page, you state the importance of the Desktop Power Supply, and the current copy is very confusing... Good comments, we're working on it. I can't tell you how hard it is to do all the things mentioned above. One of the most difficult things to accept for the people at HeadRoom is the need to implement 60-80% solutions and then move on to the next thing. It's truly impossible to be who you want to be fast. Patience and the willingness to stare at a huge mountain and still take one step at a time is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 What? An honest salesman who speaks the truth??? Seriously we need a couple more like tyll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Yup. in more ways than one. This latest release of modules wil be the last in that form. Not only is space a limitation, but if we put microcontrollers in the box we will be able to completely switch out the crossfeed electronics so that with the crossfeed off we can get rid of the input buffers and crossfeed summers. The reason we have had such a hard time competing on straight sound quality is because with the crossfeed off you are still listening to twice the active stages that you would do in a non-crossfeed amp. ...One of the most difficult things to accept for the people at HeadRoom is the need to implement 60-80% solutions and then move on to the next thing. It's truly impossible to be who you want to be fast. Patience and the willingness to stare at a huge mountain and still take one step at a time is key. Thanks Tyll, I appreciate all the honest information. And I do know about not perfecting things before moving on - if I waited to perfect a work before I moved on to the next, I'd never acheive anything. And it's good to hear that you have long range plans for HeadRoom as a company, as it will always be providing new challenges, and new satisfactions that come with the solutions. Regarding crossfeed, if you do it with microcontrollers, will that not limit the crossfeed to digital inputs only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyll Hertsens Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Regarding crossfeed, if you do it with microcontrollers, will that not limit the crossfeed to digital inputs only? No. The Micro controller is in there just to do all the switching logic. Basically, you use the microcontroller to interpret front panel switch movement and then set various relays in the box to accomplish what the user wants. This also allows you to use simple momentary switches on the front panel and the audio doesn't have to be routed to near the panels every time you need to switch something. The micro controller also runs the display; it's basically the brains for the box. The software and hardware catagory for this type of in-box control is called "embeded systems". This is a whole area of expertise that we are currently working on accumulating in house. Again, not rocket science, but a lot of work. What? An honest salesman who speaks the truth??? Seriously we need a couple more like tyll. <HeadCase branded communication style>Fuck you very much, Kevin. You'll make my head swell.</HeadCase branded communication style> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 What? An honest salesman who speaks the truth??? Seriously we need a couple more like tyll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Anyone notice anything strange about this: http://www.headphone.com/productPhotos.php?icn=0000011000 ? Maybe something to do with the last 3 photos, compared with the 5th one? And I'm the only one who has a green one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwild Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Sorry to be boring, but just because one can make a product doesn't mean one should. I honestly can't really see the need for a HeadRoom branded speaker amplifier in the desktop enclosure. It's not an absolute need, but at least from my perspective, it's a move that makes sense. The D-Class amps really are starting to redefine speaker amps, and this provides an excelent opportunity for HeadRoom to extend their reach of audio equipment one last logical step. They are already providing power management, DAC, headamp/preamp (!) components in a unified series of matching components. Why not provide the last piece of the rack that appeals to a number of headphiles, an affordable 2 channel speaker amp that can drive a set of mid-range speakers with ease without overly complicating their setup, and leveraging what they have. AV123 is actually doing the same with the X-series electronics, just that the headamp is the afterthought component, which makes more sense for speaker-philes, but HeadRoom's approach will appeal more to those of us attacking our setups from the other side (are we the dark side? ). The X-series also includes a seperate DAC/switch combo (hint hint). My 2 cents on that bit. I agree that there needs to be some clarification on the power supply options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwild Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 No. The Micro controller is in there just to do all the switching logic. Basically, you use the microcontroller to interpret front panel switch movement and then set various relays in the box to accomplish what the user wants. This also allows you to use simple momentary switches on the front panel and the audio doesn't have to be routed to near the panels every time you need to switch something. The micro controller also runs the display... DSP features (Dolby Headphone, digital HeadRoom HRTF); internal rechargeable batteries (for portable products); etc. For us just to get "lock lights" for the DACs we have to be able to incorporate microcontrollers (lightweight microprocessors). Wow Tyll, sounds like HeadRoom will really be doing what it can to challenge the market more and combine audiophile design and more modern controls and features. Hats off to you and fingers crossed. A robust switched volume circuit like that on the Lavry DAC would be pretty sweet on a next-gen maxed desktop/home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nice to see that there was a small update to the Desktop page about the power supply. And it's also fun to watch you guys add those modules by stealth, one by one to the web site - speaking of which (dear oh dear I have too much time on my hands) in every shot of a balanced amp you have, the balanced 650's are connected with L and R reversed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Gramain Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Diamond buffers? I hope these are not used in the way to polish a turd as with the PPA. Have Headroom expanded their payment options? I did ask a while back if I could pay with a bank transfe from an overseas account but I got a reply with "no" I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 You can pay with paypal. Send them an e-mail. Isn't it about time we saw all those new modules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyll Hertsens Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 I did ask a while back if I could pay with a bank transfe from an overseas account but I got a reply with "no" I think. You'll have to email [email protected] with that one. Isn't it about time we saw all those new modules? You know, tht's just what I was asking this morning. It looks like all the amps are shipping with new modules now. They told me that they want us to "officially" announce at the National Meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Since when did 'they' start telling 'you' what to do? Oh by the way, it looks like the convertable isn't quite up to date any more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyll Hertsens Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Since when did 'they' start telling 'you' what to do? Yeah, well... If I want them to do the work and take ownership of the jobs, I also can't violate their space and pace. Oh by the way, it looks like the convertable isn't quite up to date any more... Now that I can help you with. I think we have made some Max modules for you with long pins for you. I'll get ahold of Jamey and make sure they get off to you soon. (Yes, sufffffer all you poor bastards out there! You're going to regret the day you didn't become a HeadRoom fanboy early on. Your fine fingered friend TheSloth gets automatic new module shipments from us....no charge!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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