Guest sacd lover Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 I am thinking about upgrading one of my E5's. I like the sacdmods zap filter/ LC audio clock combination but I was curious about RAM. First, has anyone had any experience with this company in general; good or bad. Secondly, they do a transformer type modification to the output stage of the E5. Since they claim they remove all the transistors, op amps etc.. what drives the trasformers? Are they driven directly from the dac chip itself? Has anyone eve heard a RAM player with this output transformer type output stage? I am definitely intrigued by this clearly different approach. www.referanceaudiomods.com ..... just click the E5 link and you can read all about the $750 balanced output stage mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Anyone considering the LC audio clock may also want to take a look at Lars Clausen's new company www.newclassd.com as he has another clock design he has released under that name that looks quite a bit more impressive. I've been meaning to contact him for a while to make sure that he is not designing any new output stages before I buy the ZapFilter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 For all the RAM mods I've seen there is always a pair of op-amps doing the I/V before the transformers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 For all the RAM mods I've seen there is always a pair of op-amps doing the I/V before the transformers. Ok that makes total sense. Any idea about the sound quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 It's probably pretty good but I don't have any experience with the output transformers they use let alone any of their modded players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoZX Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Here is a pic of the inside of a fully modded E5 by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Here is a pic of the inside of a fully modded E5 by them. Is it me or do wood blocks glued to the chassis to mount the componenets seem cheesy? The transformers do look much cleaner than the stock output stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoZX Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 I agree but overall it looks like a good job by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yeah looks glued on and those transformers look kinda tiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 They sell a 450 dollar volume knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Secondly, they do a transformer type modification to the output stage of the E5. Since they claim they remove all the transistors, op amps etc.. what drives the trasformers? Are they driven directly from the dac chip itself? Has anyone eve heard a RAM player with this output transformer type output stage? I am definitely intrigued by this clearly different approach. Haven't heard one from RAM, but I have heard a CD player (Biggie's) with transformer outputs, and it is the best CD player I've ever heard, and this includes Naim gear and the Class? Delta series. As I understand it the transformers get driven off the DAC chip(s), which filters out the ultrasonic noise and makes the sound smoother and more natural. Downside being the output voltage is a bit lower and it may have some difficulty driving long cable runs. Transformer quality is critical, don't let them cheap out on you, get the good stuff like Lundahls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Yep thats quite true, my modded philips has lundahl output transformers and sounds pretty amazing, that being said I don't know anything about the transformers RAM uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Haven't heard one from RAM, but I have heard a CD player (Biggie's) with transformer outputs, and it is the best CD player I've ever heard, and this includes Naim gear and the Class? Delta series. As I understand it the transformers get driven off the DAC chip(s), which filters out the ultrasonic noise and makes the sound smoother and more natural. Downside being the output voltage is a bit lower and it may have some difficulty driving long cable runs. Transformer quality is critical, don't let them cheap out on you, get the good stuff like Lundahls. Here is the company they source the transformers from but the model they use on the E5 is unclear. http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/audioconsulting/audio_consulting_audio_transformers.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoZX Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Here is the company they source the transformers from but the model they use on the E5 is unclear. http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/audioconsulting/audio_consulting_audio_transformers.htm I believe it is the small silver wire transformers at the bottom of the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysanthemum Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Yep thats quite true, my modded philips has lundahl output transformers and sounds pretty amazing, that being said I don't know anything about the transformers RAM uses. I thought you had the tube outputs on that thing Todd? Boy it sure sounds tube like to me. Very warm , mellow, and detailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Well there is a tube in there . Goes DAC -> 6h30 -> output transformers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysanthemum Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 I understand that. But does the RAM mod, using treansformers, use a tube also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 No they typically use op-amps instead of a tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K2Grey Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 I would suggest changing out the RAM. Most components these days use cheap RAM made in countries where the cost of production is lower. This RAM is made to fit basic electrical specifications and is not appropriate for audio use. I would suggest RAM from G.skill as being good. I've used it before and the sound is rich but yet not overpowering. ...oh wait, you're talking about referenceaudiomods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoZX Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 I would suggest changing out the RAM. Most components these days use cheap RAM made in countries where the cost of production is lower. This RAM is made to fit basic electrical specifications and is not appropriate for audio use. I would suggest RAM from G.skill as being good. I've used it before and the sound is rich but yet not overpowering. ...oh wait, you're talking about referenceaudiomods LOL. I actually thought you were being serious for a sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotoriousBIG_PJ Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 I thought you had the tube outputs on that thing Todd? Boy it sure sounds tube like to me. Very warm , mellow, and detailed. It sounds that way because you arn't hearing all the grunge introduced by the cheap analogue stage anymore. You get a more natural, detailed (real detail not bright highs), and overall effortless sound. Biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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