deepak Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 K340 second pair arrived: Good thing for Fridays, and nice staff I just picked up my second pair of K340 from Fedex. This pair is not NOS. Looks: This pair says "electrostatic-dynamic systems" on the earcups. Also the headband has the AKG logo on the top, the first pair doesn't, but both have stock headbands. The coiled cord has a few tangles. The headband and earpads are in excellent condition. The elastics on this pair definitely need to be replaced, the fit is really loose. Sound: I've only had them for an hour so far and I've only played Massive Attack's Mezzanine to really get a feel for the bass and midrange. This is really strange but this pair actually requires more power to drive properly! At 30 on my Lavry Black, the NOS pair is louder than this second pair. I switched multiple times during the same track to make sure it wasn't placebo. This might have something to do with the looser fit, but to get it to the same volume as the NOS pair I have to turn it up to about 33/34. Damn these headphones are hard to drive! At those levels it would be uncomfortably loud with the HD650, and the Grado HF-1 is always used under 10. So far I think that these may be the bass light version and my NOS pair either the bass heavy or the neutral (if such a third variation does exist, I tried to do my homework and came across an interesting thread showing the insides of the various versions). The midrange once again is very pleasing to the ears. I can't make any comments just yet about treble extension, but it sounds very similar to the NOS, if anything this pair is ever so slightly a bit brighter (noticeable in fast switching). Onto the bass: definitely do not dig as deep as the NOS pair. Briefly tried with my bass sweeps and it rolls off around 35 Hz. Below 30 Hz it's silent. On the NOS pair I get excellent tone at 20 Hz. Aside from the extension the overall bass volume is also less. Playing back all of Mezzanine the bass isn't as fleshed out as the NOS. It's still there and very enjoyable, had I never heard the NOS I wouldn't have found any fault in this pair. Volume wise if this comparison can be made the NOS pair's bass is like the HD650, the second pair more like the HD580/600. From a non-audiophile point of view: I had my friend come by to pick up some books, but he likes the Sneaker Pimps and Portishead more than Massive Attack (stone him!) I let him try on both sets, and he just sat there listening without saying anything. Finally he said something like "woah that sounded good, where can I get these?" (this is with the NOS) He switched back and forth a few times, and to him the only thing he noticed was the first pair had more bass, and didn't move around as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Judging from your impressions so far, I'm reasonable certain that the pair you just got is the bass lite version, while the NOS pair is the "neutral" one. The bass heavy version which I have is seriously rolled off in the treble and a lot slower and mushier sounding (when stock) so I'm quite certain it's not the one you have. Still nice, but christ is it ever a pain in the ass to tweak, it still shares the K340 family sound but it doesn't have as much potential goodness when it comes to modding. Now you just got to get one more and you'll have the whole K340 family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 From everything I've read I would agree with you. Excellent midrange, and treble, and the bass is in no way overbearing on the rest of the spectrum...leaving me to think it's the neutral version. I'm positive I'm going to keep this set stock and mod my second pair. I'm thinking medium gauge copper recable then fool around with the dampening. And new elastics. I've settled on the Darkvoice, which is going to be a pain in the ass to tube roll (6SN7) $ wise. I've received quite a few suggestions so I'm going to start with the cheaper options first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 I've settled on the Darkvoice, which is going to be a pain in the ass to tube roll (6SN7) $ wise. I've received quite a few suggestions so I'm going to start with the cheaper options first. Well, if you're handy with a soldering iron or know someone who is, there's a relatively easy fix. Stick a 12V transformer in it or mount a jack for an external adaptor and have it run 12SN7's. Snip the filament wires on the 6SN7 and solder new wires going to the new transformer or jack. Needless to say this voids the warranty so you better make sure the stock amp works first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 I think Fitz did that with an external adapter. Is using NOS tubes in a non-adjustable biased amp detrimental to their longevity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojnihs Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 I've settled on the Darkvoice, which is going to be a pain in the ass to tube roll (6SN7) $ wise. I've received quite a few suggestions so I'm going to start with the cheaper options first. I'm going to go check one of those out this weekend, tennisets picked one up and has been raving about it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Oh, there's three versions now? I still think it is possible that there are no 'different versions' and it comes down to the state of repair or disrepair that these headphones are in, combined with mods and different amplification. This old pair you received... the cotton may be more compacted, you aren't getting a good fit, there might be oxidization on the electrets, etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 From a minimeet you and aerius had: Yesterday head-fi member philodox came over at my place for a K340 mini-meet and dissection session. First off, our K340's sound radically different, his is a bit bass shy and has much better treble extension and detail than mine. Mine had a boatload of bass, a slightly echoey midrange, and rolled off highs. Overall, his is a lot more refined sounding. If I didn't know better I'd say they were 2 completely different models. Anyways, I then pulled them apart to see what made'em tick, and why they sounded so different. Well, as soon as I popped the grill off I saw a difference, the 5 dynamic drivers around the electrostat panel on his were white, mine were black. Pulling the assembly out to look at the other side, I noted that the electrostat assembly was a little bit different as well, his had small cut-outs on the back, mine had 3 small pinholes. But it was the crossover assembly that was the big one. The toroidal step-up transformer was different, mine had a flat shiny top plate and looked to be just glued on to the board. His was bolted to the circuitboard through the top plate, and there was a rubber cover of some sort around it while mine is fully exposed. The board layout was also completely different, as was the value of the sole resistor on it. So now it's confirmed, there really are 2 versions of the K340, possibly more. The good news is you can tweak the bass heavy version to sound a lot more like the way the other one sounds. If there's enough interest in that I can do a writeup of the procedure in the DIY forum. Old thread but some of the pictures still work: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114105 And from looking through the stock grills on both my pairs one has is a copper color the other is silver. I assume these are the covers for the electret driver. I'm going to go check one of those out this weekend, tennisets picked one up and has been raving about it to me. I'm no expert in tube design, but I have a rough idea that hell of a powerful driver tube + incredibly popular gain tube would be a nice match for the K340. Likewise I'm sure the SP Extreme works really well. I just can't afford it now that the intro pricing is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 And I think there was a thread that dated back past 2005 that had a ton of pictures of the insides of all the versions. I want to say Larry made the thread but I can't remember. Also people claim theres a difference between the K1000 below and past the 4000 SN with the K1000, so it's not that far fetched that theres different versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 And I think there was a thread that dated back past 2005 that had a ton of pictures of the insides of all the versions. I want to say Larry made the thread but I can't remember. If you mean Headphile's Larry, he's said on quite a few occasions that in all the K340's he's seen/heard (a lot!), there was nothing to suggest to his ears that there were different versions sonically. There are often small design changes/tweaks over the production life of a product, but those design changes rarely indicate an active sonic change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 If you mean Headphile's Larry, he's said on quite a few occasions that in all the K340's he's seen/heard (a lot!), there was nothing to suggest to his ears that there were different versions sonically. There are often small design changes/tweaks over the production life of a product, but those design changes rarely indicate an active sonic change. It could very well just be the dampening material making a difference in my two pairs. I hope the "fix" is that simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Sometimes, I miss the blindingly obvious. Ok, we all know the K340 needs a really powerful amp, preferably, a tube amp. There was one sitting under my nose all this time. Now, this does require sourcing parts and soldering it all together, but all the parts are readily available. Behold, the Aikido Headphone Amp, and yes you can stick high power tubes like 6BX7's and 6AS7's into it, and run nice cheap 12SN7 tubes at the same time. I've heard the version using 6CG7's and 6H30's, it drove my Senn 580 and Phil's K340 with no trouble at all. It was meet conditions, but I'd say it's quite close to my own tube amp, which is to say damn good. If you're comfortable with a soldering iron or know someone who is, build the Aikido, I'd take it over a Darkvoice any day. More details & assembly instructions can be found over at the TubeCAD website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Whats the estimated cost to build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Damn can't edit the last post, but can the Aikido be tube rolled to give a warmer sound with more emphasis on the low/midbass? That was my initial attraction to the Darkvoice was the ability to tube roll and change the sound a bit for my different versions of the headphones. I really enjoy the sound from both, and wouldn't be opposed to finding a third pair in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 I don't know how much effect tuberolling will affect its sound, but it can be tuberolled. For instance if you want nice warm sound with more low end, stick an RCA grey glass 12SN7 on the input, and if you want to rock out to metal swap it for a GE 12SN7GTA. You can also use 6BL7's instead of 6BX7's which should also give a warmer sound. As for cost, if you want to do it for cheap and build it on a plank of wood, I'd estimate it can be done for about $150-$170. I'd think $250 give or take would make for a decent spec with an enclosure. Looser101 would be the one to talk to on costs since he's actually built one, if you can't reach him here hit him up on head-fi or bug philodox for his contact info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Thanks will give it some thought. I'm going mod/recable this second pair first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 I just searched around, the Aikido build is beyond my capability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 If you mean Headphile's Larry, he's said on quite a few occasions that in all the K340's he's seen/heard (a lot!), there was nothing to suggest to his ears that there were different versions sonically. There are often small design changes/tweaks over the production life of a product, but those design changes rarely indicate an active sonic change. Found the thread where Larry had inside pictures: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102220&page=15&highlight=akg+k340 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 You can always talk someone into building an Akido for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 There are definitely different looking parts, I am just not convinced that there is a sonic difference between all the different looks. Like I said before, I think it comes down to the shape they are in, mods that have been done, and the amplification. As for the Aikido... I didn't find it to be the best match at the volume levels I listen at. Would be a good amp if you listen at lower volumes though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Did some more searching this morning it looks like the Darkvoice will lend itself to lower volume listening better if I use more detailed tubes. I still think this is how I'm leaning. I had a friend that built my M3, but he's way too busy with life to start another project now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 My last and final update for anyone that cares Most of this listening was done with the NOS pair since I haven't replaced the elastics on the second pair, and I'm unable to get a good fit with them yet. So far I've played all 6 of the Star Wars soundtracks. For the original Star Wars Saga I have the deluxe editions which were each 2 discs, making for a total of 9 Star Wars CDs (and I still need to add Episode I's Ultimate Edition to my collection) Dynamics on both pairs is superb, topped only by the K1000. Even the HF-1 can't compete with these, and my thoughts on the HD650's dynamics are that they're very mediocre. The Star Wars soundtracks contain loads of dynamic passages ranging from very quiet to explosive. So far the soundstage is impressively large, even though the headstage is average size. I attribute the small headstage to giving them an intimate sound. I'm able to perceive sounds coming from left/right/front/back and images are placed accurately. If anything it's lacking some vertical soundstage that the K1000 handles with ease. I learned a lot about these terms from Darth Nut's fantastic Omega 2 review (I strongly urge any classical music fans to read the essay), and so far I would say the K340 is exceptional with all four depth cues. It was genuinely creepy to hear Princess Leia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted February 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Is it possible to get more bass from a bass lite pair? I've decided to keep my NOS pair stock. Also is it easier to change the sound of a bass heavy set or bass lite set? Right now the second pair doesn't have the low end or boosted bass for orchestra music. For example tympani drum hits aren't as profound as the HD650. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Is it possible to get more bass from a bass lite pair? I've decided to keep my NOS pair stock. Also is it easier to change the sound of a bass heavy set or bass lite set? Right now the second pair doesn't have the low end or boosted bass for orchestra music. For example tympani drum hits aren't as profound as the HD650. To be honest I don't know. On my pair the amount of bass can be slightly adjusted by changing the amount of stuffing, there's less bass with no stuffing and more bass with more stuffing, but only up to a certain point, after which it just kills the treble and sucks the life out of music. Never dealt with a bass lite pair myself so I don't know how it would be affected. Personally I think the bass heavy ones have more room to play with, the backs can be taped off to tighten & reduce bass, there's stuffing f& damping mods, and of course wiring mods. There's more things which can be played with while still having decent sound. However, I don't think it has a much potential as the other pairs, for whatever reason it just doesn't have as much detail, openess, and finesse as the bass lite & neutral pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Reading through this thread and its sister-thread over at HF has piqued my interest in the K340. The HD650 is my favorite can, and it sounds like they share a lot of similarities. Has anyone ever heard these out of a PPX3 Slam 6SN7 amp, or can anyone make an educated guess as to how this amp would synergize with the K340? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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