peanutbutterjam Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi, does anyone know what this is worth and how's its performance? I'm looking for a DAC, and this popped out. But a quick search turned up the newer models, I think this one is a very old model (I'm assuming the first). It has balanced outputs which is nice, but I was wondering about its performance... Thanks for your help HC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 It's ok - I wouldn't pay too much for it, if any at all in my position. I borrowed it from a local audio dealer, and actually preferred the sound of my CD player vs. its output into the dac (jolida 100 at the time). I remember it having that vintage, analoguey sound, which may suit your listening tastes. I could not tell you what the dealer was looking for it used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutbutterjam Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 It's ok - I wouldn't pay too much for it, if any at all in my position. I borrowed it from a local audio dealer, and actually preferred the sound of my CD player vs. its output into the dac (jolida 100 at the time). I remember it having that vintage, analoguey sound, which may suit your listening tastes. I could not tell you what the dealer was looking for it used. Hmm I see. Unfortunately I have never heard the Jolida 100 so I can't really draw any conclusion... That vendor is asking for $550, would this be too much? I'm a bit hesitant because I don't know its value on the resale market if I decide that it isn't for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 A PS Audio Ultralink 2 (updated Ultraanalog chips, HDCD) is on 'gon for $580, so $550 is probably too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Conway Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hello from PS Audio! The Ultratlink DAC was considered to be a great DAC when it was released about 15 years ago. The reality is the DAC technology has changed dramatically in that same time period. Unless you can pick this thing up for sub $200, I woudl recommend looking elsewhere. I highly recommend checking out our Digital Link III, which has won a great deal of praise. Currently it is on sale through participating resellers and our own site. For just a bit more than the price you are looking at for the Ultralink you can pick up an incredible and modern DAC. Here's a link to mroe information on the DL3 also a link to the sale price Please feel free to give us a call with any questions 866-406-8946. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 What DAC technology has changed dramatically in that same time period? Hi rez formats? Besides that what else? You seem to be a member of PS Audio so I'm curious what your take is. The digital link III is a pretty decent DAC indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 What DAC technology has changed dramatically in that same time period? Hi rez formats? Besides that what else? You seem to be a member of PS Audio so I'm curious what your take is. The digital link III is a pretty decent DAC indeed. I thought he meant the different chips available, the upsampling instead of just oversampling, or the quality of the outputs, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Well the implication is that it has changed dramatically in a positive direction. I'm not disputing that per se especialy since I am a lay-person. Just that given that he is in the business I'd be curious as to what his perspective is. Those things you mentioned.. most of the more recent production chips I think are not necessarily a step forward. Upsampling from what I can understand jury is still out on as per whether or not it is an improvement... my understanding is that in most implementations you lose headroom as you upsample more. That is if I am remembering correctly... by quality of outputs do you mean hi rez formats? In another thread someone mentioned that a majority of modern DACs reclock the input signal now which makes jitter a non-issue.. I think that was more along the lines of what I am curious about. Essentially I've heard a lot recently about how much digital has advanced in the last 10-15 years, but I just have not seen a lot of explanation as to what in particular has advanced so drastically. Often times I assume that most electronics have changed a lot over time, but I was pretty surprised to learn that very few truly new tube amp designs have really been created in the last several couple of decades. Granted vacuum tubes arent as sexy as they were decades ago as digital must be now... but companies still are coming out with new tube amp products and I wonder if the main focus of research with regards to digital reproduction isn't slanted towards making things smaller and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutbutterjam Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 The digital link III is a pretty decent DAC indeed. Hi Icarium, could you share more about this? I don't have much experience with DACs, and am looking for one around this range (<1+k). Hello from PS Audio! The Ultratlink DAC was considered to be a great DAC when it was released about 15 years ago. The reality is the DAC technology has changed dramatically in that same time period. Unless you can pick this thing up for sub $200, I woudl recommend looking elsewhere. Thanks for your input Ryan. I think the guy was trying to rip me off, considering the promotional price of the UL3. Well the implication is that it has changed dramatically in a positive direction. I'm not disputing that per se especialy since I am a lay-person. Just that given that he is in the business I'd be curious as to what his perspective is. Those things you mentioned.. most of the more recent production chips I think are not necessarily a step forward. Upsampling from what I can understand jury is still out on as per whether or not it is an improvement... my understanding is that in most implementations you lose headroom as you upsample more. That is if I am remembering correctly... by quality of outputs do you mean hi rez formats? In another thread someone mentioned that a majority of modern DACs reclock the input signal now which makes jitter a non-issue.. I think that was more along the lines of what I am curious about. Essentially I've heard a lot recently about how much digital has advanced in the last 10-15 years, but I just have not seen a lot of explanation as to what in particular has advanced so drastically. Often times I assume that most electronics have changed a lot over time, but I was pretty surprised to learn that very few truly new tube amp designs have really been created in the last several couple of decades. Granted vacuum tubes arent as sexy as they were decades ago as digital must be now... but companies still are coming out with new tube amp products and I wonder if the main focus of research with regards to digital reproduction isn't slanted towards making things smaller and cheaper. I think this question was excellently phrased. Friends have recommended me vintage equipment when I was looking for a budget amp, but when it comes to DACs and CDPs they seem to be pretty divided on this. The general consensus seem to be that there was definitely improvement on DAC technology over the last decade, but the question is what KIND of improvement is it exactly? Is it simply improvements to handle newer formats, or improvements in manufacturing technology to make the same thing smaller and cheaper, all of which are improvements which are at best controversial, or is it really a definite step forward in audio reproduction, e.g. jitter issues, etc? Hope this accurately summerises the point. Perhaps Ryan could shed some light on this? Thanks guys for the very informative inputs thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hrm I don't know what there is to elaborate on I've heard it cullen 3 modded and stock and both sound good for a current production DAC in that particular price range. I don't know if there's anything particularly stand out about either, but they didn't really do anything wrong either. Nice even across the range with a decent sound stage and a good amount of clarity and detail. I didn't listen to them side by side, but I don't really remember a night/day difference between the modded and stock one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 6moons said the difference between the Cullen modded one and stock "Was not subtle", but I think we'd all agree that a person has to spend a good amount of time with both to really get an idea of how different those DAC's might be in the end. And, I agree oversampling doesn't always mean better, but when it does make an improvement it is much appreciated. It certainly makes an improvement with the Stello DA100 via USB, where the sound when up-sampling is bypassed is thinner and less spacious than with it on. But, with that same DA100 via optical input I could not reliably hear a difference between the upsampling on or bypassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hrm.. wait now I'm confused you talk about oversampling/upsampling in a somewhat interchangeable fashion. Also could you elaborate what you meant in your earlier post with regards to improvement in "the quality of the outputs"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hrm.. wait now I'm confused you talk about oversampling/upsampling in a somewhat interchangeable fashion. Also could you elaborate what you meant in your earlier post with regards to improvement in "the quality of the outputs"? I didn't mean to say oversampling, I have been talking about up-sampling the whole time, as you can tell from the context of my example about Stello USB DAC with and without up-sampling. Sorry for the typo, don't know where that "over" came from. As for "improvement in quality of outputs", in response to your question to Ryan about his statement, "The Ultratlink DAC was considered to be a great DAC when it was released about 15 years ago. The reality is the DAC technology has changed dramatically in that same time period. Unless you can pick this thing up for sub $200, I woudl recommend looking elsewhere." In that regard I was just talking about the sound quality of the analog out or output stage, or what ever you would like to call it. As manufacturers and designers learn over time and experience, their designs and circuits and parts can often be improved to sound better. And, my statement was acknowledging that it isn't just the DAC chip that determines the sound, but if the output stage is improved upon that can make just as big of a difference in the sound. I think we would agree two DAC can use the same DAC chip and not sound the same, and one can sound better if the output stage is better. So, one with an older DAC chip could still sound better than one with a newer design DAC chip, etc. I understand there are many areas that determine the quality of the DAC unit as a whole - the quality of the parts used, the receiver chip, clock, DAC chip, power supply, analog output stage, how they are all wired together, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hello from PS Audio! The Ultratlink DAC was considered to be a great DAC when it was released about 15 years ago. The reality is the DAC technology has changed dramatically in that same time period. Unless you can pick this thing up for sub $200, I woudl recommend looking elsewhere. I highly recommend checking out our Digital Link III, which has won a great deal of praise. Currently it is on sale through participating resellers and our own site. For just a bit more than the price you are looking at for the Ultralink you can pick up an incredible and modern DAC. Here's a link to mroe information on the DL3 also a link to the sale price Please feel free to give us a call with any questions 866-406-8946. Hi Ryan! How long will the sale price be available? I have a big tax refund hitting the bank by the 12th, and I could charge it, but I am auditioning a used Stello DA100 signature on Sunday and can't make decision before Sunday (assuming the meeting goes as planned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Hello from PS Audio! The Ultratlink DAC was considered to be a great DAC when it was released about 15 years ago. The reality is the DAC technology has changed dramatically in that same time period. Unless you can pick this thing up for sub $200, I woudl recommend looking elsewhere. I highly recommend checking out our Digital Link III, which has won a great deal of praise. Currently it is on sale through participating resellers and our own site. For just a bit more than the price you are looking at for the Ultralink you can pick up an incredible and modern DAC. Here's a link to mroe information on the DL3 also a link to the sale price Please feel free to give us a call with any questions 866-406-8946. Ryan, I just want to thank you for the discount link, as I am enjoying my DL3 with 30 hours of burn-in so far. I and my friend Blutarsky (Scott) both feel it has better synergy with my Stax O2 Mk2 and Woo GES than my old Apogee mini-DAC with thousands of hours on it. I look forward to trying it in my balanced headphone rig later as well. I registered the warrantee tonight for the 3 years coverage, although it was Scott who paid for it and had it delivered to him Friday, because he was buying my Koss ESP950 headphones and I told him instead of cash I wanted the DL3. I hope that is not a problem for the warranty, since it was bought directly from your site on the 25th. I'll more post impressions later when I am sure it is fully burned-in, but for now there are no surprises. So, until I can afford to get one of those $5000 DAC, this should do just fine. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPH Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I just want to thank you for the discount link, as I am enjoying my DL3 with 30 hours of burn-in so far. DAC burn-in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutbutterjam Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'll more post impressions later when I am sure it is fully burned-in, but for now there are no surprises. So, until I can afford to get one of those $5000 DAC, this should do just fine. How did you come to this conclusion? Which $5k DAC are you talking about? No offense here but what is the point of your post? This doesn't seem to lend your future impressions any weight at all. Maybe I'm the one who is reading this wrongly and talking too much. If this is so, may the mods kindly delete this. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPH Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 How did you come to this conclusion? Which $5k DAC are you talking about? No offense here but what is the point of your post? This doesn't seem to lend your future impressions any weight at all. Maybe I'm the one who is reading this wrongly and talking too much. If this is so, may the mods kindly delete this. Regards. You're not the only one who finds his posts ridiculous, trust me. He's always walking on the thin line between shilling and over-enthusiasm as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Thanks guys. Not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutbutterjam Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Thanks guys. Not. Hey bro, let me put it this way. I don't believe in bashing ppl, even if their post sound extremely silly. I am just disappointed. I think the PS Digital Link DAC is very promising, heck that's why I asked about it. Ryan was then nice enough to come along and posted a link for that promotion. Of course I'm excited. And any review that comes out about it would command my attention. I don't place any bias on ppl, so I was prepared to read it even if its by you. Then you came along and posted that thing. Now I'm forced to take positive comments from your review with a pinch of salt, while giving greater weight the negetive ones. In short, instead of looking forward to a nice review by you which I can pretend to be balanced, I am now given a review that only allows me to decide whether the PS DL3 sucks or not, and NOT whether its good or not. Nothing against you, just disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Okay, I was just going to walk away, but I'll throw out a couple of clarifications: Blutarsky came over today and he and I listened to the PS Audio DAC vs his Stello DA100 Signature vs his normal DA100, using the same interconnects (silver ones made by Pendles) to connect to my Woo GES. Over a couple of hours we tried my Stax O2 Mk2, HE60 and HE Audio Jade, and his un-dampened SR-Lambda and APS modded re-cabled Koss ESP950. We thought that the three DAC's feeding my single ended Woo GES were on basically an equivalent level. The Stello had less changes in sound with changes in up-sampling rates than the PS Audio. The PS Audio seemed to have more synergy with my GES and O2 Mk2, which is what I was looking for after trying 4 different matched quads of 12AX7 type tubes. I was given the choice of keeping the DA100 Signature or the PS Audio DL3 in exchange for my APS modded re-cabled Koss ESP950 - I picked the DL3. I have no $5000 DAC in mind, just that that was an amount floating around in another DAC thread I had been reading. I don't have $5000 to throw at a DAC, so I figure the DL3 is good enough for now. Sorry for posting something that I'm sure will be torn apart by the hyenas again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upstateguy Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 6moons said the difference between the Cullen modded one and stock "Was not subtle", but I think we'd all agree that a person has to spend a good amount of time with both to really get an idea of how different those DAC's might be in the end. And, I agree oversampling doesn't always mean better, but when it does make an improvement it is much appreciated. It certainly makes an improvement with the Stello DA100 via USB, where the sound when up-sampling is bypassed is thinner and less spacious than with it on. But, with that same DA100 via optical input I could not reliably hear a difference between the upsampling on or bypassed. I'm sorry to say this has not been my experience with the standard DA100. The bypassed mode has more bass, more depth and more air either optically or USB. Up-sampling decreases the bass, and brings the vocals and mids forward flattening out the sound stage and decreasing the depth. IIRC there is a thread about this over at the Fi. Maybe it's just me, but I will be bringing this set up to the NY meet at the end of the month so anyone who wants to check it out for themselves, can. USG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPH Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Sorry for posting something that I'm sure will be torn apart by the hyenas again. Nope, that post made sense unlike the previous one which seemed more like manufacturer sucking than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'm sorry to say this has not been my experience with the standard DA100. The bypassed mode has more bass, more depth and more air either optically or USB. Up-sampling decreases the bass, and brings the vocals and mids forward flattening out the sound stage and decreasing the depth. IIRC there is a thread about this over at the Fi. Maybe it's just me, but I will be bringing this set up to the NY meet at the end of the month so anyone who wants to check it out for themselves, can. USG I was just reporting on what Blutarsky and I heard on his Mac Mini > USB Stello DA100 > Melos SHA Gold > HP-1000. I neglected to ask him when we did this (last summer) what bit rate his music was that we were using - I wonder if that would make a difference in how the upsampling bypassed sounds. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Nope, that post made sense unlike the previous one which seemed more like manufacturer sucking than anything else. Thanks. I actually had more impressions as we compared the DL3 to DA100 Sig with different inputs (optical and USB) and different up-sampling rates, but I condensed it into what I thought was pertinent and not confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.