bhd812 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 If you want i have a sonata for sale if you want that... i just shilled myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted November 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 If you want i have a sonata for sale if you want that... i just shilled myself... Billy, is your Sonata the Reference version or the Statement version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immtbiker Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Sounds about right. I may swap the Statement for a Reference and just run the phono stage on low gain. This should still give me the Grado sound without the hiss. As long as we are shilling, I can let go of my Benz Ace for 1/2 price. It has maybe 25 hours on it. I find the PH-1 like the RA-1. Looks beautiful but has no pizazz. I would swap out the pre before changing the cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhd812 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 high output Statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted November 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 high output Statement. the statement is low output, the reference is high output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanoha Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 the statement is low output, the reference is high output. It's a rebel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 I have an ultra low output Reference cart for sale if you're interested Post. The FS thread is over on head-fi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 And get a better PH-1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanoha Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 And get a better PH-1! Hmm, I wonder what the inside of the Grado phono stage looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immtbiker Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 And get a better PH-1! At 24 lbs. it only weighs 48 times more than the Grado PH-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted November 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 As long as we are shilling, I can let go of my Benz Ace for 1/2 price. It has maybe 25 hours on it. I find the PH-1 like the RA-1. Looks beautiful but has no pizazz. I would swap out the pre before changing the cart. Sounds like a good deal, but I'm going to sit on this setup for a while and see if I can't make it sing. I don't want cart rolling to turn into tube rolling. I'll end up buying half a dozen of those little wood boxes Kevin Barett sells to keep technics headshells in. Sound update: the Platinum seems to exhibit not just a midrange hump, but unfortunately an upper midrange honkiness that reminds me of the W5000. This can be heard strongly on male vocals placed prominently in the mix and some higher pitched horns. This wonkiness is much more noticeable with the GS1000 then with the 22Ls. My latest tweak was to set my arm height to zero, which I did when I found out the height of the Platinum is 15mm. This did a lot to bring out the bass and further flesh out the mid-mid range. I was delighted to see my cart riding the pizza with the front of the cart slightly higher then the back, as most of the reviews I've read say that this is the best way for this particular cartridge to ride (most of the time we want the cart to ride evenly on the surface), and that Grado woodbodies are particularly sensitive to tonearm height. I would agree with this statement. So far the PH-1 + Platinum combo isn't a pure winner. It has some faults (upper midrange honk, grado wooliness) and some strengths (great midrange, decent bass, great soundstage, smooth and pleasing sound, nice steady PRaT). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Bought a used (50hrs according to the seller) Grado Reference Sonata on the gon for cheap. Had a hell of a time getting it aligned last night. A word of advice for anyone new to vinyl, or just to myself for posterity: don't try to setup a new cartridge at 9:45pm at night. Its really best to wait until you have the luxury of a free weekend afternoon. Listening to test signals on the HiFi News Test LP is not a good way to relax for bed. At first I got the azimuth down, but then I realized the cart was way to forward in its headshell, so I pulled it off and started from scratch with the overhang gauge. What a total pain in the ass. But anyway, I think I'm reasonable happy with it, though I did fall asleep last night with a british guys voice speaking in my head against the backdrop of a high pitched tone (20 hertz... 19 hertz... 16 hertz... 15 hertz... 9 hertz [omg cartridge wobble O M G]) . From my very brief listening session last night, I can tell the Sonata is obviously richer and fuller then the Platinum. Its difficult to do a direct comparison though since the Sonata is a Reference and the Platinum is a Statement. Maybe I should buy billy's statement sonata, get a new headshell, and do a shootout with the PH-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 A word of advice for anyone new to vinyl, or just to myself for posterity: don't try to setup a new cartridge at 9:45pm at night. Its really best to wait until you have the luxury of a free weekend afternoon. Listening to test signals on the HiFi News Test LP is not a good way to relax for bed. ... But anyway, I think I'm reasonable happy with it, though I did fall asleep last night with a british guys voice speaking in my head against the backdrop of a high pitched tone (20 hertz... 19 hertz... 16 hertz... 15 hertz... 9 hertz [omg cartridge wobble O M G]) .LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Having horrible trouble with the Reference Sonata. I did some more adjusting, and now this cart is bright as hell, like really horribly bright. I can't seem to get this cartridge to click into my system like I did with the Statement Platinum. Taking a break for the rest of the night, I'll head back into battle tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 okay I lied, the battle continues. new results: baerwald = good technics jig/stevensonesque = bad this cart needs a good amount of overhang or it will hate on your ears with the treble badness. whew, that was scary for a second there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 As frustrating as the cartridge alignment process can be, its very rewarding and exciting when you learn something new about your cartridge and table. I realized last night that what I was experiencing with the Sonata wasn't so much brightness as it was a lack of body with a midrange and treble glare, a surefire indicator that something is wrong alignment wise. This is a cart known for its fun midrange and bass, as well as being known for its wooly grado sound (i.e. not brightness). So going over some alignment guides on the internet, I decided to check out the azimuth. I put the cart on a record and, sure enough, the cart was definitely tilting to the right. This surprised me since there is no way to adjust azimuth on the 1200's tonearm. Regardless, I gripped the headshell and tipped its towards the left, and it did in fact move ever so slightly. Now the cart is riding evenly on the LP. I tuned the VTF back down to 1.5g, and the bass and midrange came alive on the Hoffman Stadium Arcadium. I'm not prepared to say I've finally fully got this one perfected until I do some more listening, but there is a good chance I have. Sitting and listening intently last night, I realized that vinyl has been a challenging test for my ears, brain, and patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Another night of intense battling once again finds me deciding that the Baerwald alignment is best for this cart, with a tracking force between 1.5 and 1.6 (haven't decided which I like more yet). Just for fun I switched out the PH-1 with the Bellari VP129. Gone was a bit of midrange hump, but in full force was a woolie bully sound. Here is the Grado wool I was looking for! Like throwing a blanket over my speakers The PH-1 in low gain mode must load the cartridge in such a fashion to minimize this hazy sound (this is good). The haze was noticeable when running the low output platinum with the PH-1 in high gain mode, but it was not overly distracting like the bellari + high output sonata. To be fair, the Bellari didn't have time to warm up. I'll leave it plugged in tonight and try it again tomorrow (going to sleep shortly). Thus marketh the third night of the Postjack Sonata Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Thus marketh the third night of the Postjack Sonata Wars. Confucius say, Have battle of wits with inanimate object, be prepared to lose...dignity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I wonder if postjack will be (un)fortunate enough to see the infamous Grado dance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I wonder if postjack will be (un)fortunate enough to see the infamous Grado dance... Nope, not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Currently tracking the Grado Reference Sonata at 2.0g. Which is the maximum recommended by Grado. It now absolutely sounds like all the reviews said it would. Luckily I googled up a thread from the Steve Hoffman archives where someone was having similar Sonata troubles, namely a glaring midrange and occasionally peaky treble. They suggested cranking up the VTF. So I went from 1.5 to 1.8, and that made it better. So just for kicks I put it at 2.0. And the bass now goes crazy deep, and the midrange is finally lovely and liquid, without any of that nasty glare. I tweaked the alignment one more time using the Technics Baerwald Arc Protractor, and ran it through all the applicable tests on the Hi-Fi News Test LP, and it seems to be performing marvelously. Based on my experience with Platinum Statement, and also per GE's recommendation, I'd hypothesize that best way to go with a Sonata would be to get the low output Statement version and pair it with a powerful and dead quiet (solid state?) soundstage. I would love to hear a Sonata Statement with say a battery powered unit like the Sutherland Ph3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 I've written TTVJ to see if I can take advantage of their 30 day return policy to upgrade to a Sonata Statement. That way I'll have the Sonata in both HO and LO, and I can do a proper shoot out. I'm willing to bet I'll prefer the LO, even with the hiss from the PH-1. Listening to some sludge metal with the Reference right now though, sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 The real question is why aren't you returning the PH-1. The high-gain hiss sounds like enough of a reason to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted December 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 The real question is why aren't you returning the PH-1. The high-gain hiss sounds like enough of a reason to me. I'm fairly sure I read somewhere on TTVJ's site that there are no returns on b-stock? And the PH-1 was B-stock. I was thinking I would just end up selling it on the gon later for not much loss. But now that I think of it I can't seem to find where it says this on the site, maybe I just made it up in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'd just call him and ask him. Seriously, I'm sure paid good money for it even as b-stock and only half of it is usable in my book and that makes it not worth keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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