laxx Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Alrighty boys. All I've done in HC was bullshit around since I've been here and I figure now's a better time than ever to get serious. Here's my audio history, it kind of sucks, but it's better than nothing. I've always been a fan of high quality sound, and it all stated with my Sony walkman back in the mid 90's. I found the stock earbuds to be horrible and I bought the Sony Fontopia earbuds (~$115 and I was 12 years old) and found them to satisfy me. Fast forward 10 years, I'm in college and bought a pair of cheap headphones from Circuit City (Panasonic blah blah blah ~$30) and they were perfectly fine through college. In 2006 when I graduated and moved home, I realized I used headphones all of the time because my bedroom (at the time) was right above my parents room and the uncontrollable bass of my Logitech Z-680 speakers bothered my parents immensely. I found Head-fi around that time and started with a pair of Sennheiser HD595's since I wasn't planning to get too into this hobby. After using them for a month or so, I found their bass to be bloated and rolled off highs, so I figured an amp might fix that. Again, I didn't think I'd get too into this hobby, so I bought a Corda Aria as a one box solution. I actually liked the Aria with the HD595's. It openned the top end a bit, tightened up the bass a little, but ultimately, I found myself looking for more. I wanted even tighter bass, a more open sound, better imaging, and a less forward presentation of the music. I asked for a pair of K701's for Christmas and I got them. I fell in love/am in love with the K701's. I've heard HD650's out of the SP amps during the NY meet and found the bass to be too much for me (I like pretty light bass if you're asking). I know it's not the best place to try gear out, but I think too much bass isn't something that would change if I had the SP amps at home instead. So with the K701's and a few hundred hours of burn-in, I found them to sound a bit hollow out of the Aria. Dry might be a more common word to describe it. Without going into too much detail of what's wrong with the combo, I'll just call it unengaging. From there, I figure tubes might help, so I sold the Aria, bought a Constantine DAC and paired it with a Darkvoice 332 (my parents were in China at the time and picked it up for a decent price). I got some new tubes and after a few days of burning in, gave it a listen. I liked it. The bass was a bit fuller (tube rolling helped too), the midrange was much more involving, and the soundstage felt more natural. I enjoyed this combo for a few months and figured I'd be done with the hobby until I get either: 1. a raise at my current job, 2. a new, higher paying job, or 3. get involved with DIY. Fast forward 4 months and #2 applies to me. So now I'm back in the game, though accompanied with a few changes. I changed rooms (dimensions are about 15" x 12") and am no longer above my parents. Also, during the 4 months, I acquired a power amp (labelled power amp, but it's an integrated [power amp with volume pots along the input RCA]) and a pair of speakers. Both are fairly old, but both free. After getting them, my headphone/speaker time is about 20%/80%, so I figure my next step should be in the speaker world. The amplifier I got was a JVC Laboratory Super-A M-7050 (conservative 150 wpc @ 8ohm), which I was told was the top of the line model back in 1979 costing ~$1,500, and a pair a Pioneer CS-R580s. I find the sound to be warm, engaging, and very fluid. But at the same time, there's so much I miss from the K701's experience that it's left me wanting SO much more, especially regarding detail retrieval. So I'm here to ask what I should do. I have a somewhat mediocre budget, not wanting to spend too much as I find it wrong to buy a $5,000 pair of speakers while living upstairs in my parents house. What do I buy? How should I budget out gear? One thing I do want badly is a preamp. I'm tired of the mono volume pots on the BACK of the JVC amp and would like to just max those out (or take them out of the chain altogether) and use a stereo pot on a preamp instead. I also think the weakest link in my current chain are the speakers, so those should be on the list as well. How about a source upgrade (DAC as it's just too convenient to give up)? I'm very confused as to what approach I should take. Part of me thinks I should go all out on the pre and DAC and get not too expensive speakers (no one will questions how much I spent on the other components, but they will if they see huge speakers), and wait until I move out do the bigger speaker upgrade. And since I have a working power amp, I figure I'd use that until I move out as well. I guess my general questions are: What components should I buy? What ratio should I break down my budget for each component? Also, recommendations on what I should audition would be awesome as well, though I am open to just buying before I hear it if it happens to be something older that's not as common in stores. I'm a fan of buying used as it saves me alot of money so long as it's resellable. Wow, long post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I think the most important component in your system is going to be your speakers. Imo, others may differ, build your system around speakers. From there, you can decide which is more important source or amplification. For me it was source next then an amplifier/integrated/preamp. I'm going to suggest a speaker company that not many have heard of. I've owned 4 different speakers from them and each one has been excellent. The beauty of them, besides the sound, is that there relative size. I have a room that is aroudn 11 x 13 and have a nice pair of floor standers. The company is http://www.system-audio.com/. There is a pair of their SA2K ($3,500 retail) on audiogon: http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1203153383. I've owned these as has jp11801. They are really special speakers and because the company isn't well known and doesn't send too many for review you can get good deals on Audiogon. I have the SA Rangers at the moment and I would put these up against speakers that cost well north of them. The SA2K are pretty amazing speakers. Do a search, you should find some information on them. That would leave you $3500 for amplification and source. Pick your components right and you will have a kick ass speaker rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Cool. I don't think I mentioned my actual budget. I guess I'd like to keep it under $5,000, and if it's less, awesome. I do plan on selling the Darkvoice and the RS2's that are in my sig, so that adds a few hundred as well. So with that, it would be awesome if the preamp had a decent headphone section as well so I can still use my K701's, though that might change as I might just give the entire headphone related stuff to my aunt instead. But I guess it wouldn't hurt if the pre had a decent headphone out. And a remote would be fan-fucking-tastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Sounds to me like you need to rethink your whole system. Yes, speakers are most important, but I think you should upgrade your system all at once. I understand the hesitancy to go "all out" while living with your parents, so I would recommend active speakers, driven by CDP with variable outputs and be done with it. There's all sorts within your budget -- did you know that Wharfdale make monitors (active speakers)? Look at these prices! You could, of course, spend more, and get more, but the Wharfdales sound surprisingly good -- give them a listen if you can. Did you want to be able to play anything besides CD's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Not really. I don't even plan to adda CD player. I have a cheap Sony CD/SACD player and it works for me. I rarely use it, so it's not on my list right now. I'd like to eventually upgrade it, but it's way down on the list. Essentially, it's speaker, pre, DAC, power. At least that's what I'm thinking since I don't have a pre, so that's #2, I feel my power amp is better than my DAC, so DAC is #3. These are my priorities unless someone can convince me otherwise. I do plan to go audition some speakers after the holidays are over, so any input on what I should look out for would be great. I actually wanted to try out the AV123 Strata Mini's, but I've been lazy and haven't posted on the AV123 forums for a local person to let me go over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 So you're a computer-as-source guy? That's fine, as there's been some discussion of CDP's with digital inputs (read: DAC with a built-in CD player) and variable analog outputs. You don't need the CD player, but unfortunately, there's even fewer DAC's with variable outputs. So I would still recommend either that (DAC or CD/DAC w/variable outputs), or a DAC and a preamp (separates vs. ...uh... "togethers"). You really want bang-for-the-buck, I highly recommend active speakers. If you get a small pair of monitors, you may need to flesh them out with a subwoofer, but those exist. So either a 2.0 or 2.1 setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 So you're a computer-as-source guy? That's fine, as there's been some discussion of CDP's with digital inputs (read: DAC with a built-in CD player) and variable analog outputs. You don't need the CD player, but unfortunately, there's even fewer DAC's with variable outputs. So I would still recommend either that (DAC or CD/DAC w/variable outputs), or a DAC and a preamp (separates vs. ...uh... "togethers"). You really want bang-for-the-buck, I highly recommend active speakers. If you get a small pair of monitors, you may need to flesh them out with a subwoofer, but those exist. So either a 2.0 or 2.1 setup. There aren't really a shortage of dacs with variable out. Benchmark, Apogee, Lavry, pico, and if you have a mac, apogee duet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Brain lapse -- I knew that. They've even started making integrated amps with built-in DACs. Yeah, one of those would probably be fine, too. Especially if it has a USB or Firewire connection that matches whatever you've already got. I was reading the new Benchmark review in the current issue of Stereophile in which they deliberately chose USB 1.1 because (a) it's perfectly sufficient for uncompressed 24/96 stereo, and ( it forced them to use their own drivers, allowing them to make it bit perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 When you say variable output, do you mean more than 1 output? If so, I do plan to go the separate DAC and preamp route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Variable is pertaining to the volume... ie. it has a volume control of some sort, no preamp needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Yeah, variable as opposed to fixed, thereby rendering the preamp moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ah. I suppose that could work, though I think I'd prefer an actual preamp. I don't know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ah. I suppose that could work, though I think I'd prefer an actual preamp. I don't know why. There are lots of reasons to prefer a preamp, don't let dusty talk you out of it... Your budget should be $50 speakers, $50 source, $2900 preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ah. I suppose that could work, though I think I'd prefer an actual preamp. I don't know why.But...but...but...less gear to hide!There are lots of reasons to prefer a preamp, don't let dusty talk you out of it... I'm not trying to talk him out of it -- didn't you see my "separates vs togethers" comment?Your budget should be $50 speakers, $50 source, $2900 preamp.LOL, someone's been drinking. Man, I wish I could drink. Has the Anchor SeasonalMerry Fochin' Christmas Brew come out yet? I need to grab a six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Has the Anchor XmasSeasonal Brew come out yet? I need to grab a six. It's merry christmas beer, it's not any stinking seasonal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 You know, when I am king, I'm going to declare National "Bah Humbug" day -- and then the national drink will be some variant of a black and tan. Went back and looked -- you're right (of course) -- but I could've sworn I remembered that at least one year, they caved in to pressure and called it a seasonal brew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
en480c4 Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I ran a Denon DCM-560 changer w/ a variable out straight to my Adcom GFA-535 amp (which now powers my sealed 12" sub) powering my Boston Acoustics VR30 speakers for a while and really liked it. Of course, that was back in the day, before computer-as-source or much of a need for an external DAC. But the simplicity of that setup was nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinp6301 Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Supernait - all in one solution, just add speakers http://www.naim-audio.com/products/supernait.html but its expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Try this: Naim CD5i and the Nait 5i he is also selling for $850. $1750 and you the identical set up I had with the SA2K speakers I recommended. For $3250 you will have $6700 worth of gear at retail and a kick ass system. http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1203435915 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hYdrociTy Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 I would look for a used cd5x instead of the cd5i. For not much more money, the x uses a way better digital filter, and decodes hdcd ;P Then again a supernait and a totem arro for around 5000 used for the system would rock hard Maybe even build your own speaker since I hear you've got the wood skillz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 I would look for a used cd5x instead of the cd5i. For not much more money, the x uses a way better digital filter, and decodes hdcd ;P Then again a supernait and a totem arro for around 5000 used for the system would rock hard Maybe even build your own speaker since I hear you've got the wood skillz I had a 5i and 5x at a meet down here side by side and there was so little difference I ended up with the 5i. I've heard to get the most out of the 5x you need to add an external power supply. An option on the 5x but not on the 5i. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Alright, I'll put the Naim stack on my list to audition come January when I actually have the time to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 That's not side-by-side, that's one on top o'th'other.[/pedantry] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Lol, are you sure you wouldn't raise the budget and get the Anthem Statement P2 while you're at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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