Sabre32 9018 and why is it so great?

[Cankin]

I know that Audio-gd products are not popular here, but under my budget, I'm looking at Audio-gd NFB-11(Sabre32 9018 ) and NFB-12(dual WM8741s). Since they are the same design except for the D/A chip, I'd like to know how Sabre32 9018 compared to WM8741.

There are negative comments about 9018. DIY'ers didn't like the fact that the chip cannot be obtained thru "normal means" nor even the white paper. MSB even concluded:

"So the hot new 32 bit DAC is actually a 6 bit DAC! Right from their own white paper. It is undoubtably a good DAC for the mass consumer market it was designed for. It is certainly nothing of interest to the high-end community, especially as the the DAC, digital filter and sample rate converter that cannot be dissabled are all bundled in a single chip so no opportunity exists to improve its performance.

So be informed and do not be fooled by the over-the-top advertising made by the audio companies who actually use this $39 chip. "

so what do knowledgeable minds here think?

[Currawong]

In that price range, everything else other than the DA chip is going to be more relevant IMO. Kingwa voices the two versions a little differently anyway, so it's rather moot. I reckon the sound of the Sparrow with 8741 was a bit more all-round pleasant, so I'd go with the dual 8741 personally. I wouldn't expect miracles with it though and yeah, I'm not sure anyone other than me really cares about them here.

[nattonrice]

If you actually read that section of the white paper you'll see that MSB or whoever wrote that article took the thing they wanted and left out... well, the context.

[morphsci]

^^^^ This.

[luvdunhill]

I really like the WM8741

[K3cT]

I'm not sure about how my observation is going to be relevant with Audio-gd's Sabre offerings, which I'm highly interested with actually, but the Twisted Pear Buffalo24 that I've heard some time back didn't really wow me. I'm not sure how I'd describe this DAC as it's very technically competent so it has no problems with details and extension and all that jazz but to borrow Monkey's words from the other site, it seems to lack "immediacy and impact" or in my words, soul. It's also very sterile sounding. As expected, the DAC didn't really stay that long with my friend and he ended up selling it to some bloke in Head-Fi. When I asked why he ended up with that decision, he said that the Sabre-based DAC "has zero ambience" which takes away all the fun in his music and so, off it goes.

Well, take that 0.2 cents as you will.

[Beefy]

Well, take that 0.2 cents as you will.

In the context of the Buffalo, the output stage makes a hell of a difference. The newer IVYIII offers a lot more over the one that originally came with the Buffalo.

I suspect the same is true of the AudioGD products with either DAC chip.... and considering the hard-on that they have for not employing global negative feedback, this is what will make or break the product.

[mypasswordis]

Well, take that 0.2 cents as you will.

That's still 18 rupiahs even with the tanked dollar. Cool.

[Cankin]

In that price range, everything else other than the DA chip is going to be more relevant IMO. Kingwa voices the two versions a little differently anyway, so it's rather moot. I reckon the sound of the Sparrow with 8741 was a bit more all-round pleasant, so I'd go with the dual 8741 personally. I wouldn't expect miracles with it though and yeah, I'm not sure anyone other than me really cares about them here.

I think I'd go for dual 8741 but I thought since the 9018 is more hyped now so it will be easier to sell NFB-11 later if I don't like it.

If you actually read that section of the white paper you'll see that MSB or whoever wrote that article took the thing they wanted and left out... well, the context.

^^^^ This.

I'd love to take a look at the white paper but my background isn't engineering

maybe MSB couldn't get 9018s so they downplayed them??

I'm not sure about how my observation is going to be relevant with Audio-gd's Sabre offerings, which I'm highly interested with actually, but the Twisted Pear Buffalo24 that I've heard some time back didn't really wow me. I'm not sure how I'd describe this DAC as it's very technically competent so it has no problems with details and extension and all that jazz but to borrow Monkey's words from the other site, it seems to lack "immediacy and impact" or in my words, soul. It's also very sterile sounding. As expected, the DAC didn't really stay that long with my friend and he ended up selling it to some bloke in Head-Fi. When I asked why he ended up with that decision, he said that the Sabre-based DAC "has zero ambience" which takes away all the fun in his music and so, off it goes.

Well, take that 0.2 cents as you will.

This is what I've read regarding to DACs with Sabre chips(9018/9016), maybe this is their house sound?

[K3cT]

In the context of the Buffalo, the output stage makes a hell of a difference. The newer IVYIII offers a lot more over the one that originally came with the Buffalo.

I suspect the same is true of the AudioGD products with either DAC chip.... and considering the hard-on that they have for not employing global negative feedback, this is what will make or break the product.

Can you enlighten us more with your statement regarding the relation between global negative feedback and the ESS9018?

And IIRC, the Legato I/V module that TP offers is a similar non-negative feedback that Audio-gd has a hard-on with right?

That's still 18 rupiahs even with the tanked dollar. Cool.

The bill for LCD2 couldn't have come at a better time.

This is what I've read regarding to DACs with Sabre chips(9018/9016), maybe this is their house sound?

Perhaps but with so many factors involved such as the analog stage and power supply, it's hard to say really but I do believe that the choice of DAC will influence how your final product will sound in one way or another.

And as luvdunhill had remarked, I do think that the WM8741 is a very competent chip. The PerfectWave is much loved around here and it uses that. The Pico DAC does too if I remember right.

[Beefy]

Can you enlighten us more with your statement regarding the relation between global negative feedback and the ESS9018?

Not just for the ESS9018, but for any Audio-GD product. The analogue stage will make or break it, and going for a no feedback design might either be a great thing or terrible.

And IIRC, the Legato I/V module that TP offers is a similar non-negative feedback that Audio-gd has a hard-on with right?

It might be similar, but I am not even remotely interested in Legato. Why buy a supposedly high end DAC and discrete linestage, then feed it through coupling caps?

[elnero]

And as luvdunhill had remarked, I do think that the WM8741 is a very competent chip... The Pico DAC does too if I remember right.

I'm pretty sure the Pico uses the WM8740