cclragnarok Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 hmm well I will think about that, I had not thought about it that way but I can see where you're coming from. Luckily I'm into SS so I can't care about tube harmonic distortion As far as turning the phones from one to another it appears to work though. Outside of some woodies, I guess most high end headphones should have very low levels of harmonic distortion anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 hmm well I will think about that, I had not thought about it that way but I can see where you're coming from. Luckily I'm into SS so I can't care about tube harmonic distortion Solid state has its own characteristic distortion, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 sure. i bet it harnesses zero point energy, too. You mean you don't? You poor Luddite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Solid state has its own characteristic distortion, too. Lets not get into that people. Yes there is distortion and yes it's very small.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Well here is the IRF I have for turning HD650s into SA5000s, Download the convolver pluging for Foobar and use this and you will see: foobar2000: Download foobar2000 and optional components Enjoy one and all.Convert.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 no fucking thanks. You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclragnarok Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I would try it, but I sold my HD650s a while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) Yeah, I ain't got no HD650's, neither.Lets not get into that people. Yes there is distortion and yes it's very small....Pfff. We'll get into it if I feel like getting into it. I just don't feel like getting into it right now. There is no "let's not get into that" condescending "I own this thread" crap on head-case, there is only backs of heads and shovels. Edited December 11, 2008 by Dusty Chalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Yeah, I ain't got no HD650's, neither.Pfff. We'll get into it if I feel like getting into it. I just don't feel like getting into it right now. There is no "let's not get into that" condescending "I own this thread" crap on head-case, there is only backs of heads and shovels. Actually on head-case I can be condescending if I want to especially if it was a joke. People take boards way to seriously, even here. I don't own this thread it's a free for all as you and I both know. If I wanted that bull crap I would have posted over at HF and you don't need to explain the rules to me (in a rather condescending manner I might add). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 . I don't own this thread it's a free for all . Don't tell me that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 So has anyone tried it? Thing that amazes me is how well all phase information is still preserved (not that it shouldn't be). This weekend I'll see if I can turn the 650s into d5000s, the 5000s into 650s and something into the ESP950s By I'll see I mean I'll see if I have time. In other news it looks like I'll be switching back to foobar2000 since they finally fixed the issue with Hi Rez WMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Actually on head-case I can be condescending if I want toIt's true. especially if it was a joke.Except, like Billy, you forgot the funny. People take boards way to seriously, even here. I don't own this thread it's a free for all as you and I both know. If I wanted that bull crap I would have posted over at HF and you don't need to explain the rules to me (in a rather condescending manner I might add).You did, and it's true, I can be quite condescending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Well I just checked the math some more and It works out that if I write the files at 24bit my noise floor stays below -130db. So much for "introducing shitty distortion" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 well, noise and distortion aren't the same thing, but I'm still interested to see how this all turns out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 well, noise and distortion aren't the same thing, but I'm still interested to see how this all turns out Oh I know but I'm just showing that the only distortion I would be introducing is the noise in the signal and the distortion of whatever the target being modeled may be. As someone else pointed out (quite rightly) the convolution process is purely linear so harmonic distortion is not going to happen so all I can see is the noise problems and the distortion of the actual target and transducer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Graph of the harmonic distortion products of a Senn 650 and Beyer DT880 No way you can make either one sound like the other as convolution can't do harmonic distortion and other non-linear effects. Such as breakup, and peaks & nulls caused by resonances and cancellation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Graph of the harmonic distortion products of a Senn 650 and Beyer DT880 No way you can make either one sound like the other as convolution can't do harmonic distortion and other non-linear effects. Such as breakup, and peaks & nulls caused by resonances and cancellation. Actually a lot of the peaks and lulls caused by cavity resonances are linear on the base frequency and can be captured. That said the wavelengths of audio sound waves in air are huge compared to the cavity of headphones. This is actually why they use convolutions to model reflections from walls. The harmonic distortion products as I said before I can't do anything about but 70 db is a fair amount of headroom. That said if you listen really hard for that signal it won't be there. Of course everything I've said is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted December 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Well over the weekend I tried to turn the SA500s into the HD650s and the results were less than impressive: There were odd distortions and resonances going on. It turns out that at least for the SA5000 the distortion products are large at some frequencies and hence have a large effect on the sound. At 6710Hz I measured 20% distortion (though this is where there is a huge dip in response). I always said that this method needed a well behaved source to work and it appears the SA5000s are not it. On the other hand with the 650s as the base the method works great and you get the SA5000 sound beautifully and you get flat sound after the correction as well. I am pleased with the progress. I rewrote everything to work in Octave now so it's all on one machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm trying this right now. Having never heard an SA5000, its hard to measure the convolver's level of success. I will say the overall soundstage has shrunk to the size of a Mardi Gras dubloon (more Grado like), and the upper midrange and treble is a little etched, and there is less bass. Sounds unnatural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 to be fair, Dio's voice on this recording sounds a little etched even with the convolver off. I guess the recording gear of the day couldn't fully capture his greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) What are you using for your numbers? I.E. how are you doing this without a DEQ2496? Edited April 30, 2009 by Dusty Chalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm trying this right now. Having never heard an SA5000, its hard to measure the convolver's level of success. I will say the overall soundstage has shrunk to the size of a Mardi Gras dubloon (more Grado like), and the upper midrange and treble is a little etched, and there is less bass. Sounds unnatural. That doesn't really sound right.. the SA5000 has a pretty wide soundstage. The rest could be ~correctish my memory isnt as sound in those areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 What are you using for your numbers? I.E. how are you doing this without a DEQ2496? This was my convolver based fun no DEQ required, just the foobar convolver plugin. When I did it A/B the sound stage conveyed as well but that was a long while ago and the SA5000 is long gone at this point so I can't check. If you're interested I guess I could try and turn 650s into modded Denon D5000s too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well for giggles I made up the 650 to D5000 converter and it works amazingly well. I can email it to whoever but I can't attach it because it's over the limit. (I switched to 32bit WAV files to keep the noise floor ridiculously low) If anyone is interested let me know. I've been doing A/B with the D5000 and the soundstage conveys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 This was my convolver based fun no DEQ required, just the foobar convolver plugin. When I did it A/B the sound stage conveyed as well but that was a long while ago and the SA5000 is long gone at this point so I can't check. If you're interested I guess I could try and turn 650s into modded Denon D5000s too.Ah, I remembered wrong, I thought you did it with the DEQ. My mistake. So you gave your files to Jack? Or does the question still stand -- from whence did Jack get his convolver files/numbers/whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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