morphsci Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 But I personally don't see a point of enjoying music if you have to really concentrate to listen whether you're getting the sound you want or not. Keyword: enjoy I'm done. Please return to Head-Fi, Do not pass go, Do not collect any knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I split this out of the HD800 thread. I'd apologize for potentially getting some of it out of order but, well, I just don't care enough to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 The MS-Pro seriously made me suffer at trying to differentiating "Zu" and "Su". The RS-1's were coming out of a Maple Audio amp thingy though. Not the Lisa combo. Fuck me. I reckon I must be able to hear more detail with iBuds right from an iPod than you can from an MS-Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Fuck me. I reckon I must be able to hear more detail with iBuds right from an iPod than you can from an MS-Pro I would expect nothing less out of dyno-jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 But I personally don't see a point of enjoying music if you have to really concentrate to listen whether you're getting the sound you want or not. Keyword: enjoy If your goal is to enjoy music you can do that with a very cheap boombox, or just stick with your portables and IEM's. A lot of the users here are pursuing a higher level of fidelity, because we feel in the music that we listen to, there are a lot of subtle details and nuances that the best equipment can bring out. Also a lot of us feel that the hiend stuff has a way of eliciting a very special emotional response that connects us with the music in a certain way. If your main goal is to enjoy your japanese music and be able to differentiate the sound of su and zu then by all means it appears you have found your audio nirvana. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrSapphire Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 If your goal is to enjoy music you can do that with a very cheap boombox, or just stick with your portables and IEM's. A lot of the users here are pursuing a higher level of fidelity, because we feel in the music that we listen to, there are a lot of subtle details and nuances that the best equipment can bring out. Also a lot of us feel that the hiend stuff has a way of eliciting a very special emotional response that connects us with the music in a certain way. If your main goal is to enjoy your japanese music and be able to differentiate the sound of su and zu then by all means it appears you have found your audio nirvana. Enjoy. I too wish to enjoy higher fidelity, not merely just enjoying what comes out of headphones. To enjoy is to feel the music. But of course there are those headphones which to my ears aren't able to pick up certain details, which IMO is not that enjoyable if I have to struggle to pick up these details. No doubt that the headphones I said which failed do have their positives, but just not enough detail to enjoy the music which I listen to. English does not really emphasize on strict pronunciation. Easy, EZ, Yiizi, so many ways of pronouncing of it without running away from the meaning. But for Japanese music, "Zu", "Su", "Ju" are so important that if you mention the wrong one, it could either a) make the word make no sense at all or become an entirely different word. Now. I don't get why people are bashing just because to my ears these headphones lack obvious (or what should be obvious) detail. NOTE: "Lack obvious detail", NOT "obviously lack detail" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 dyno-jesus. I think you just coined a new custom title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Now. I don't get why people are bashing just because to my ears these headphones lack obvious (or what should be obvious) detail. NOTE: "Lack obvious detail", NOT "obviously lack detail"Because for every other genre most of us don't find them lacking in any way, shape or form. Are any of them perfect, no, but the silver SR325 and W5000 are the only headphones I've heard that I'd qualify as Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrSapphire Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Because for every other genre most of us don't find them lacking in any way, shape or form. Are any of them perfect, no, but the silver SR325 and W5000 are the only headphones I've heard that I'd qualify as Fail. I suppose people are over-generalising that what I said was a list of what headphones were good or bad. My list is a specified list, listing headphones which IMHO lack obvious detail for Japanese music. God.. I didn't say that these headphones sound like shit, overall. Even the first line of my post specified something. "I wonder if these headphones can do well with Japanese music." Everyone just skipped to seeing the fail fail fail epic fail I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 But for Japanese music, "Zu", "Su", "Ju" are so important that if you mention the wrong one, it could either a) make the word make no sense at all or become an entirely different word. Make a new language. Other than that, you're fucked. There's always going to be similar words in any language for a variety of reasons. Plenty of American pop has slurred slang all over the place. When you cant tell which specific word is said, you infer it out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Everyone just skipped to seeing the fail fail fail epic fail I suppose. Are you trying to piss people off now? If so, it's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 If detail is your #1 priority, I think you might like the Sony SA5000's. They are very "detailed" for lack of a better word. I find them so bright and shrill I would not understand how a human being could listen to them for more than 45 seconds but I can guarantee you they will help you differentiate between su and zu quite easily;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I suppose people are over-generalising that what I said was a list of what headphones were good or bad. My list is a specified list, listing headphones which IMHO lack obvious detail for Japanese music. God.. I didn't say that these headphones sound like shit, overall. Even the first line of my post specified something. "I wonder if these headphones can do well with Japanese music." Everyone just skipped to seeing the fail fail fail epic fail I suppose. You don't get it. Your list is an epic fail, even for its proposed purpose, because your comparisons are not valid. Any comparison between phones that doesn't control for recording, source and amp IS SERIOUSLY COMPROMISED OR COMPLETELY INVALID. I doubt that your comparisons were done side by side so you are also relying on your audio memory. That is why judging pieces of kit is a long-term process and not necessarily easy (or cheap). Lastly, even if you control all the other variables, there is no guarantee that the list would be unchanged if you then changed recording, source, or amplifier. I'm sorry, but the world is just not as simple as you would like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Are you trying to piss people off now? If so, it's working. I concur. ZS, If you genuinely want some feedback and constructive criticism about audio and gear (which a lot of us are giving to you), then be willing to take it at face value without getting pissy. If not, don't bother contributing as you are only going to piss people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asr Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I wonder if these headphones can do well with Japanese music. Ultrasone PRO750 & ED.9 Fail. Denon Marklblabla Fail. Sennheiser HD600 & HD650 Epic Fail. Grado RS-1 Fail. Audio-Technica W5000 & AD2000 Fail. AKG K701 Fail. Alessandro MS-Pro Epic Fail. Etymotic ER4S Pass. You based your impressions of all those headphones at a meet? I think you fail, meet noise is hard to overcome and hence your impressions are invalid. The treble region is particularly hard to hear against meet noise so I call bunk on your opinion, let alone that it doesn't look like you controlled the variables in the system setup as morphsci mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrSapphire Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Make a new language. Other than that, you're fucked. There's always going to be similar words in any language for a variety of reasons. Plenty of American pop has slurred slang all over the place. When you cant tell which specific word is said, you infer it out of context. AFAIK Japanese music in most cases have no slang at all. They only have an accent if they try to pronounce English words due to Japanese pronunciation influences. Are you trying to piss people off now? If so, it's working. I'm not trying to piss anyone off. I'm the one getting pissed off because I'm getting bashed with general content for specified content. If detail is your #1 priority, I think you might like the Sony SA5000's. They are very "detailed" for lack of a better word. I find them so bright and shrill I would not understand how a human being could listen to them for more than 45 seconds but I can guarantee you they will help you differentiate between su and zu quite easily;) I suppose. But in all out relation to the first post, I was just wondering if the HD800 could pick up those sounds, not looking for recommendations. You don't get it. Your list is an epic fail, even for its proposed purpose, because your comparisons are not valid. Any comparison between phones that doesn't control for recording, source and amp IS SERIOUSLY COMPROMISED OR COMPLETELY INVALID. I doubt that your comparisons were done side by side so you are also relying on your audio memory. That is why judging pieces of kit is a long-term process and not necessarily easy (or cheap). Lastly, even if you control all the other variables, there is no guarantee that the list would be unchanged if you then changed recording, source, or amplifier. I'm sorry, but the world is just not as simple as you would like it. The only pair of headphones which wasn't side by side was the RS-1. Every other pair was listened to one after the other. And seriously, they are just impressions based on love hate situations. It's like food seriously. You put it in your mouth first, love or hate the taste. If you love the taste, you take another bite, savour it and understand the taste. If you hate the taste, then I don't need to tell you what to do if you hate it. This is why I'm emphasising, lack OBVIOUS detail. LACK OBVIOUS DETAIL. Not "OBVIOUSLY LACK DETAIL". I concur. ZS, If you genuinely want some feedback and constructive criticism about audio and gear (which a lot of us are giving to you), then be willing to take it at face value without getting pissy. If not, don't bother contributing as you are only going to piss people off. I enjoy receiving feedback and criticism but I do not like it when people stray from the topic. You based your impressions of all those headphones at a meet? I think you fail, meet noise is hard to overcome and hence your impressions are invalid. The treble region is particularly hard to hear against meet noise so I call bunk on your opinion, let alone that it doesn't look like you controlled the variables in the system setup as morphsci mentioned. Well to be honest the spot I was listening to during the meet was at the far end from where most of the noise was happening. But yeah, noise is noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 In my experience, the good headphones dont "wow" you at first glance; to each their own, but I desire something neutral and accurate. Thats why so many reviews for neutral equipment go on about "nothing jumping out" at you. You become aware of such things over time, not right away, like at a meet. You could have heard some great headphones and dismissed them as boring too quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrSapphire Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 In my experience, the good headphones dont "wow" you at first glance; to each their own, but I desire something neutral and accurate. Thats why so many reviews for neutral equipment go on about "nothing jumping out" at you. You become aware of such things over time, not right away, like at a meet. You could have heard some great headphones and dismissed them as boring too quickly. That, I 100% agree. It's like my food example, basically. The "boring" factor is like when you taste something you like, but it doesn't taste special compared to other food which has generally the same taste. That's when you go back to it again and again to understand the taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
en480c4 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm not trying to piss anyone off. I'm the one getting pissed off because I'm getting bashed with general content for specified content. You were getting bashed because you were incredibly lazy in your original post. Simply using fail and epic fail to describe headphones that are considered fairly proficient across many genres is no help to people you expect to help you. Your post very well could've been 3-4 times in length, getting into specifics about shortcomings of each, exactly what you're looking for... Instead you throw a bunch of stuff out and expect people to know exactly what you mean and exactly what you're looking for. And then have to spend another 5 or 6 posts trying to explain what you should've made clear in your first post. That is epic fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrSapphire Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 You were getting bashed because you were incredibly lazy in your original post. Simply using fail and epic fail to describe headphones that are considered fairly proficient across many genres is no help to people you expect to help you. Your post very well could've been 3-4 times in length, getting into specifics about shortcomings of each, exactly what you're looking for... Instead you throw a bunch of stuff out and expect people to know exactly what you mean and exactly what you're looking for. And then have to spend another 5 or 6 posts trying to explain what you should've made clear in your first post. That is epic fail. MY BAD then even though I did say "Japanese music" to begin with. EDIT: Now I'm gonna get bashed for not specifying what part of Japanese music, aren't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
en480c4 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 MY BAD then even though I did say "Japanese music" to begin with. EDIT: Now I'm gonna get bashed for not specifying what part of Japanese music, aren't I? Yes, you are. For those of us not familiar with the blanket that is Japanese music, how the fuck are we supposed to know what they aren't doing well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrSapphire Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yes, you are. For those of us not familiar with the blanket that is Japanese music, how the fuck are we supposed to know what they aren't doing well? Pronunciation of "Ju", "Su", "Zu". Very important to pronounce them right in Japanese as pronouncing them wrong/switching one with the other, could change the meaning of the whole word or make a word make no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 EDIT: Now I'm gonna get bashed for not specifying what part of Japanese music, aren't I? I doubt it. It's painfully clear that no one can give you the answer you're looking for, i.e. information about the HD800. I'm guessing maybe 100 people have heard those headphones now and the likelihood that one of them a) reads this forum, listens to whatever Japanese music you like and c) gives a shit is pretty much null. I enjoy receiving feedback and criticism but I do not like it when people stray from the topic.Oh I'm sorry, are you the one that derailed an entire thread this morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungi Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm Japanese, listen to Japanese music, and find your lack of ability to distinguish basic phonetics highly amusing. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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