$10K, what should I get?

[earwicker7]

I just happened to get some nice headphones because I needed something for my new PC. I got the Headroom Balanced Desktop/Senn HD650 combo. As someone who used to have a pretty sweet stereo system (until my drug habit caused it to go away, but that problem is, thank god, way in the past) I was expecting to be happy with the sound of a nice set of headphones. Instead, I was blown away. This actually sounded better than my old high-end setup. Music was, for a long time, something that caused the neighbors to knock at my door and tell me to quiet down (apartment living sucks). I rarely listened to it other than in the car. However, I was so impressed with the sound that I literally spent all weekend plugged in to my headphones listening for the things that I'd never before been able to pick up. Instruments that I'd never known were in the songs were suddenly front and center; it's amazing when you discover that a song you've listened to 500 times actually has a keyboard in the background that you've never noticed.

So, as happy as I am with my new system, I'm being my typical obsessive self and want to upgrade to something REALLY NICE for my bedroom. I'm thinking about a $10,000 budget should suffice. Being somewhat new to the headphone world, I don't want to rush in and just buy the first thing that leaps out, so I'm posting here for some advice from the pros. This needs to be a complete system, ie, CD player, amp, headphones, and whatever else makes them sound good.

If this makes much of a difference, I currently lean towards rock (mostly, for lack of a better word, alternative) but also like classical. With the new headphones, I can see myself veering towards more classical, as I enjoy it so much more with the HD650s.

Thanks!!!

[Dusty Chalk]

Sounds like fun: first of all, be prepared to stick with what you got. I've heard the Balanced/HD650 combo, and it's in my top 10 list of best headphone setups ever, anywhere. The only thing it's missing is that tube magic, but if you have the diamond buffers, you'll be compromising in other areas to get that tube magic. You might want to try other of the balanced headphones -- I am partial to the Beyer DT880 on that setup, others are partial to Grados.

So I'd concentrate on the source. Get the best source you can afford. dCS recently came out with a single-box player, as did EMM Labs, at that price point, I would check out both of those. And then get some pretty damn decent cables -- I recommend silver, but let them burn in for a couple weeks.

If you want to really slay, put a tube buffer between your source and your amp. I'm not really fond of the MF X10, but something like that.

You may also want to go electrostatic. The Orpheus headphones with something like a KGSS or a Blue Hawaii (as built by Justin) should be pretty good.

[postjack]

If you want to really slay, put a tube buffer between your source and your amp. I'm not really fond of the MF X10, but something like that.

Can someone explain to me exactly what a tube buffer does? Is it specifically for use between solid state components only?

[tkam]

I think you should actually do this in steps, first thing I would do is drop about 5-7k on a killer source and see how well your balanced desktop and 650's scale up with that. Then you might want to try out other headphones and see what you end up liking best. After that upgrade the amp if necessary.

[Dusty Chalk]

I realized after I posted that I answered a different question than was originally asked. You are happy with your Balanced/HD650 setup, and you want to get another setup for a different location, namely your bedroom. Correct? I agree with the advice of doing it in stages, because you actually increase your possibilities of getting the synergy exactly right in both systems if you have the ability to move stuff around.

Oh, and definitely get a Singlepower SDS XLR if you're going to stick with dynamic headphones, that's just a killer amp.

Can someone explain to me exactly what a tube buffer does? Is it specifically for use between solid state components only?

It adds tube magic.

No, seriously, its intent is to do impedance matching. You can actually have a solid-state buffer as well. I won't make up numbers, since I'm not qualified to, but let's say that your source has too low an output impedance, and your amp is too sensitive to variations on its input impedance. That's when you'd want a buffer.

[Iron_Dreamer]

I completely agree with the advice to spent at least half you budget on a source. A system so expensive without a true high-end source is a shame.

[earwicker7]

Alright... good times, good times... Thanks a bunch, everyone!!!

So far it seems that everyone agrees I should start off with a good source. I'll probably just be listening to CDs. Could you guys throw out some recommended models so I could check them out?

Also, would you consider things like the abovementioned tube buffer to be part of the source or the amplification? Just want to concentrate on one thing at a time like you guys recommend.

[PFKMan23]

Let's see, Resolution Opus 21, a modded Sony 9100 ES, Esoteric DV60, modded denon 5910, etc...

[aerius]

Audio Aero Capitole CD player, a headphone whose sound you really like, and a custom built amp to drive the darn thing. Go out to meets & stores, arrange to borrow other people's gear, and listen to as many headphones as you possibly can. Eventually you'll come up with a shortlist, then narrow it down to one or two, then get someone to custom build and amp for the chosen headphone(s).

[Ben Gramain]

Dunno if you want quantity and quality or just quality. I'd look at computer-based sources too. I don't have any experience of the Slim Devices Transporter but that's an option. As is (my way) building a silenced computer with a decent soundcard and a tablet PC as a remote control. I suppose it also depends on what sort of person you are as well though: I'm not really a 'rituals' person, so I regard CD players as a hindrance these days. Can't wait for something which rips DSDs.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

The tube buffer suggestion is kind of odd. Just don't buy odd gear that would require you to use one...

Biggie.

[earwicker7]

Dunno if you want quantity and quality or just quality. I'd look at computer-based sources too. I don't have any experience of the Slim Devices Transporter but that's an option. As is (my way) building a silenced computer with a decent soundcard and a tablet PC as a remote control. I suppose it also depends on what sort of person you are as well though: I'm not really a 'rituals' person, so I regard CD players as a hindrance these days. Can't wait for something which rips DSDs.

I actually have a nice sound card on a REALLY nice computer. Unfortunately, it's a computer rigged for gaming and is liquid cooled, which means it is like sitting next to a coca cola factory--very loud. I'm actually thinking about getting a closed set of cans for this rig, as the blows through my HD650s. Anyways, I don't want to make this computer the center of my trophy system, just too loud.

[deepak]

I actually have a nice sound card on a REALLY nice computer. Unfortunately, it's a computer rigged for gaming and is liquid cooled, which means it is like sitting next to a coca cola factory--very loud. I'm actually thinking about getting a closed set of cans for this rig, as the blows through my HD650s. Anyways, I don't want to make this computer the center of my trophy system, just too loud.

If you went the Transporter route, you could use the hardrives in your gaming PC to store music, and use wireless to stream to another room.

There are mods for the analog output stage of the Transporter as well.

[Dusty Chalk]

The tube buffer suggestion is kind of odd. Just don't buy odd gear that would require you to use one...

Well, I originally suggested it based on the incorrect presumption that he'd have a solid-state source (CD player) and a solid-state amp (Headroom Balanced). So yeah, I concur, buy a tube amp, then you won't need the tube buffer.

[recstar24]

Just get a Doge - its the best! yeah! thumbs up!

Source - ipod should be just fine, but make sure you get an ALO dock.

With all the money saved, you can go ahead and buy all the R10's, L3000's, and HP-1000's to your heart's content.

Thank me later

[earwicker7]

If you went the Transporter route, you could use the hardrives in your gaming PC to store music, and use wireless to stream to another room.

There are mods for the analog output stage of the Transporter as well.

Are there problems with wireless interference? I live in a crowded apartment complex, so god knows who else will be using those frequencies.

[postjack]

I don't have the high end experience of some of these other cats, but I'm in the "drop a healthy portion of your budget on a super dank source" camp. Then listen to a ton of cans to decide what you like. Best way to do this is get out to meets or shops, but if you live in audio wasteland like me a decent enough alternative is to buy and sell cans used. Then once you find a can whose signature really impresses you, get an amp to match.

also keep asking questions around here. HC is a good resource, you can benefit from the experience of others.

[earwicker7]

Question... is it better to isolate all of the different parts (the way I did back in the day with my hi-fi stereo) or just buy high-end combo units? In other words, should I buy a separate CD and DAC, or one with both in the same unit? Same question with amps--preamp and power amp, or a combo of the two?

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm a big believer in a one-box source for redbook, especially starting from the ground up -- an external DAC can be a good cost-effective upgrade, but if I were starting over, I'd buy a one-box unit.

I don't think headphone amps come in pre/power -- they're basically integrated amps. Many also perform preamp duties, in which case if you're eventually getting a speaker rig, I'd get a separate power amp for that.

Could you guys throw out some recommended models so I could check them out?

Some that would be on my personal short list:

Rega Saturn

Ayre CX-7e or C-5xe

dCS P8i

Meridian G08 or 808

EMM Labs CDSA

A modded something (modded by RAM, SACDmods, modwright, vacuumstate.com, et al)

Esoteric something

Musical Fidelity something -- A308 CD player A5 Cd player kW SACD player, whatever

[postjack]

It adds tube magic.

Awesome!! Its just like musicdirect said!

also to the OP, don't get sucked in by team computer-as-source. computers are for gamin' and internetin', not for listenin'. and if anyone tells you different smack 'em a good one right in the mouth, ya here me boy? good smack right to the teeth'll teach 'em good... you want a world class transport, not a $90 external western digital mybook.

[postjack]

Question... is it better to isolate all of the different parts (the way I did back in the day with my hi-fi stereo) or just buy high-end combo units? In other words, should I buy a separate CD and DAC, or one with both in the same unit? Same question with amps--preamp and power amp, or a combo of the two?

FWIW I tend towards the integrated transport + dac camp. I think adding an external DAC with an optical cable is just one more connection to worry about... IMO of course, and this is based on nothing but a gut feeling. i gotta go with what feels right.

[deepak]

Are there problems with wireless interference? I live in a crowded apartment complex, so god knows who else will be using those frequencies.

Probably better answered on their forums: http://forums.slimdevices.com/

[Ben Gramain]

I actually have a nice sound card on a REALLY nice computer. Unfortunately, it's a computer rigged for gaming and is liquid cooled, which means it is like sitting next to a coca cola factory--very loud. I'm actually thinking about getting a closed set of cans for this rig, as the blows through my HD650s. Anyways, I don't want to make this computer the center of my trophy system, just too loud.

Odd, a liquid cooled system is quieter than a fan-cooled one. By quite a margin in many cases. But that aside, no-one said you have to use your existing machine: you're not looking for speed in a music rig, you're looking at silence. Which is why my HTPC has a fanless PSU, a relatively basic Core 2 Duo, a radiator case, quiet cooling and notebook drives. A stock PC also isn't totally out of the equation: There are some very quiet ones around. I've gone with outboard soundcards for reasons of taking interference away from the PC: The RME Fireface is my audio soundcard of choice.

[PFKMan23]

the Audio Aero Capitole is definitely an incredibly good player.

You and Todd should meet up to compare players

[PFKMan23]

i've been trying to set something up \

*glares at Todd*