Team Audio-Technica Unite!

[deepak]

Wow...

Just wow...

You do know you sound like a manipulative two year old?

[Elephas]

Please don't spank me!

I didn't intend to insult anyone, it was supposed to be funny.

[n_maher]

Back to the AT talk.

I was able to do some back and forth between my HD650s w/ Zu cable and the W5ks yesterday. The 650s are balanced and were being driven by my mini32 and sourced by the same Wadia that was feeding the Millett. I have to be perfectly honest, the W5k did not fair all that well in the comparison. If I listened to the AT for a while (like an hour or so) my hearing would adjust to its particular sound signature pretty well and things would start to sound pretty normal and even. But switching back to the 650s reset my hearing enough that putting the AT's back on immediately highlighted what I can only describe as a hollow midrange. What is most confusing to me is that it certainly isn't the whole midrange that sounds this way. Maybe it's my lack of understand of what "midrange" really is, but some portions of the midrange signal sound outstanding out of the W5k's but other parts seem to be almost missing. So the experimentation continues...

I've got an M3 that I'm repairing for a friend that I will hopefully have up and running this week which is reported to be one of the better/synergistic W5k amps and of course I'm working on a single-ended beta22. So I'll keep these around long enough to try both of those amps and see if they react favorably to higher output current. I have exactly zero tolerance for headphones that require intense setup tweaking, that is to say that I think good headphones should sound good with just about anything, so if these prove to be even more difficult to get sounding "right" their stay will probably be a short one. It's a shame really, they're so freakin' comfortable (I have them with me at work today) and at times I think I catch glimpses of what they should be capable of but not often enough.

[slwiser]

Nate, I thought that you said that they did sound good after about an hour of listening. It sounds like you want it to sound like a HD650 and it is just not an HD650. I think this bias will always disappoint. I would edit your statement above to say "I have exactly zero tolerance for headphones that require intense setup tweaking to sound like my HD650s" and this would be more clear. To me it sounds like you said that the AT-W5000 sounded fine after about one hour without tweaking so what "intense" tweaking are you suggesting is needed? I am confuse by this post!

[deepak]

Well he's not the only one that thinks the W5000 have an odd midrange. It was one of the weakest points of the headphones when I heard them.

[grawk]

Nate, I thought that you said that they did sound good after about an hour of listening. It sounds like you want it to sound like a HD650 and it is just not an HD650. I think this bias will always disappoint. I would edit your statement above to say "I have exactly zero tolerance for headphones that require intense setup tweaking to sound like my HD650s" and this would be more clear. To me it sounds like you said that the AT-W5000 sounded fine after about one hour without tweaking so what "intense" tweaking are you suggesting is needed? I am confuse by this post!

I think he' saying anything that takes an hour of adjustment time so that you don't hear the sucked out mids indicates a problem with the headphones. Your brain can get used to anything, but that doesn't make it right.

[slwiser]

^^^This suggests that all three of you may have a bias for a certain standard sound. There is nothing wrong with having that bias but denial may be an issue here.

[n_maher]

Nate, I thought that you said that they did sound good after about an hour of listening.

My ears certainly adjusted more to the sound of the W5ks after a period of listening, sure. I spent well over 2hrs exclusively listening to them Friday night and by the end of it I was no longer consciously aware (most of the time anyway) of the midrange issues that strike me upon first listen each time I put them on.

It sounds like you want it to sound like a HD650 and it is just not an HD650. I think this bias will always disappoint. I would edit your statement above to say "I have exactly zero tolerance for headphones that require intense setup tweaking to sound like my HD650s" and this would be more clear.

I don't think that's really necessary. I don't expect them to sound like the HD650s, but I do expect them to have good tonal balance when compared to the 650s - I do not currently think they do. That's what I'm trying to say.

To me it sounds like you said that the AT-W5000 sounded fine after about one hour without tweaking so what "intense" tweaking are you suggesting is needed? I am confuse by this post!

What I'm saying is that if I have to build a system around them to get them to sound neutral I'm not interested. As I said, I think good headphones should be able to sound good (perhaps not great) when paired with other good components. None of my other three headphones sound bad with anything else. I'm not discounting the idea of synergy as I've witnessed it first hand but I also don't subscribe to the idea of having to have one setup for each set of headphones. To me that's just using the rest of your equipment to provide the right coloration for the headphones.

Clearly in my rig right now the bottleneck is in the amp department and so I'm reserving final judgement on these headphone until I hear them with at least a couple of amps that I would view as more than adequate. These are certainly still early impressions and I reserve the right to update them, flip flop a few times and so on before making any sort of final judgement. I'm currently listening to them at work with a small class A SS amp and again they sound pretty good. I'm giving them a bit of a bass boost to see if that helps further but it's not like I want to throw them off my head or anything. I just have high expectations for a $700 headphone, I don't think that's so wrong, is it?

[n_maher]

I think he' saying anything that takes an hour of adjustment time so that you don't hear the sucked out mids indicates a problem with the headphones. Your brain can get used to anything, but that doesn't make it right.

Yeah, that cuts to the chase nicely.

^^^This suggests that all three of you may have a bias for a certain standard sound. There is nothing wrong with having that bias but denial may be an issue here.

Sure, I have biases, who doesn't? More than anything I'm biased towards a neutral, refined sound. The W5k's certainly get some of that very, very right, but so far not all of it.

[grawk]

^^^This suggests that all three of you may have a bias for a certain standard sound. There is nothing wrong with having that bias but denial may be an issue here.

I think I may understand the confusion. You think music has a variable sound in the real world, so getting your brain used to your transducers is ok. I think music is supposed to sound on headphones as close as possible to what it sounded like when I recorded it live. So I'm a little more picky. That's not to say I'm a huge fan of senns. I owned a pair of 580s, liked them well enough, and sold them. But even the VTGs, which are among my favorite headphones ever, didn't sound quite right. It was a compromise I could live with for good closed phones, but in the end, I decided to let them move on.

There really is a right and a wrong with sound. You may not mind wrong, but that doesn't make it right. You're welcome to that opinion, and in a lot of ways, I agree with it. There are a lot of variables in sound reproduction, and everyone picks the ones they care about. But there's a reason W5000s don't command the respect other ATH woodies do.

[deepak]

^^^This suggests that all three of you may have a bias for a certain standard sound. There is nothing wrong with having that bias but denial may be an issue here.

I suppose we all have biases. An exceptionally detailed, natural midrange is something I look for in a good headphone.

[slwiser]

More clarity and room for later impressions is a given, thanks.

[Dusty Chalk]

Please don't spank me!

I didn't intend to insult anyone, it was supposed to be funny.

I laughed. I read it as good-natured ribbing, pretty much what he was asking for, though it sounded like he was asking for headphones.

[Elephas]

I laughed.

You, sir, are a candidate for "The Awesome!"

I like the W5000+HA5000 combo very much. I've been guilty of giving slwiser some grief for selling his W5000 and keeping the HA5000. Then he sold the HA5000! What the...?

But after I fell into the electrostatic black hole, I don't enjoy the W5000+HA5000 as much as I used to. The first electrostat I owned was the SR-007, after accidentally bidding too much for one in July 2007, I think. Then I couldn't resist more electrostats, and ended up with several. The W5000 doesn''t seem especially detailed to me anymore.

[slwiser]

You, sir, are a candidate for "The Awesome!"

I like the W5000+HA5000 combo very much. I've been guilty of giving slwiser some grief for selling his W5000 and keeping the HA5000. Then he sold the HA5000! What the...?

But after I fell into the electrostatic black hole, I don't enjoy the W5000+HA5000 as much as I used to. The first electrostat I owned was the SR-007, after accidentally bidding too much for one in July 2007, I think. Then I couldn't resist more electrostats, and ended up with several. The W5000 doesn''t seem especially detailed to me anymore.

There is life after the W5000+HA5000 after-all. But this still does not mean that they are not worth having and being enjoyed. They are still very good.

My issue is that I don't want to have so much invested in many things that I can't enjoy them, so I consolidate into what I can enjoy. Others can and do enjoy many different setups. I have only three at different levels of performance, my computer, my easy chair and my portable setup to be used at work. Each gets some time from me when I am located properly.

[JBLoudG20]

I read it as good-natured ribbing

And that's all it was. Just busting balls, trying to make friends, and he gets all oily vagina. Hey whatever, I wont try anymore.

[The Monkey]

...and he gets all oily vagina.

lol. +

[n_maher]

Back on topic:

The second half of my listening session at work yesterday was spent with the bass boost enabled. It filled out the lower end of the cans nicely without getting sloppy, which was a nice surprise. Some of the boost-effect seemed to help with the lower mid issue that I continue to have which was also a bonus. It will be interesting to see if I can achieve the same result with the M3 which has the variable bass boost option. In the mean time I'm going to have a go listening to them out of my Dared knockoff to see what a little tube-drive goodness will do to them but other than that I think I'll shelve further impressions until I have something decent to drive them with.

[thrice]

I haven't spent a lot of time with the W5000, but they do have their issues. The best I heard them was paired with MOSFET output amps (like the M3 or the AT HA whatever or that other headphone amp AT makes). That's about all I've heard them with so my experience is limited.

My biggest issue is fit. The bands that go from one cup to the other are longer and have a different arc than past AT cans. They never fit my head well. They always fell in such a way as to leave a gap between my head and the earpads just above my ears. The fit issue really messes with the SQ. If i pushed on the cup to get them to sit correctly on my head I'd get a good fit and the sound would improve. If not then the sound was off. I was at a mini meet with two pairs of W5000 and one pair definitely fit better than the other.

My impressions were that they sounded a bit bright with recessed mids, but I suspect that has more to do with the fit issue than anything else as that improved when I pushed the cups so they would sit properly. There was something odd in the mids going on though.

[Elephas]

I had the same problem with fit. The other AT's all fit fine.

Bending the W5000 headbands at the middle, or topmost part, so that they are more oval-shaped increases clamping force and results in much better fit. The metal headbands are very strong, I used quite a bit of pressure to bend them.

[n_maher]

Fit doesn't seem to be an issue, I'm getting a good uniform seal and external pressure on the cups doesn't change the sound in a positive way. I have found that their position on my head does make a difference and I'm not sure I've found the ideal placement yet.

[Dusty Chalk]

And that's all it was. Just busting balls, trying to make friends, and he gets all oily vagina. Hey whatever, I wont try anymore.

No, please do. I can't make fun of you if you don't play straight man once in a while.

And technically, I wasn't making fun of you -- you knew what you (were) doing. I was just providing counterpoint to deepak's criticism.

Elephas -- nah, I'm too much of a prick sometimes to qualify for "teh awsum!"

[JBLoudG20]

No, please do. I can't make fun of you if you don't play straight man once in a while.

And technically, I wasn't making fun of you -- you knew what you (were) doing. I was just providing counterpoint to deepak's criticism.

Elephas -- nah, I'm too much of a prick sometimes to qualify for "teh awsum!"

Oh I wasn't criticizing you, Peter. I was criticizing elephas. I got's no beef with you.

[slwiser]

I haven't spent a lot of time with the W5000, but they do have their issues. The best I heard them was paired with MOSFET output amps (like the M3 or the AT HA whatever or that other headphone amp AT makes). That's about all I've heard them with so my experience is limited.

My biggest issue is fit. The bands that go from one cup to the other are longer and have a different arc than past AT cans. They never fit my head well. They always fell in such a way as to leave a gap between my head and the earpads just above my ears. The fit issue really messes with the SQ. If i pushed on the cup to get them to sit correctly on my head I'd get a good fit and the sound would improve. If not then the sound was off. I was at a mini meet with two pairs of W5000 and one pair definitely fit better than the other.

My impressions were that they sounded a bit bright with recessed mids, but I suspect that has more to do with the fit issue than anything else as that improved when I pushed the cups so they would sit properly. There was something odd in the mids going on though.

You heard SK138s W5k and my W5k using your M^3 that SK138 had purchased and my AT-HA5000 at SK138s during a mini-meet about two years ago when we meet at SK138's home. Mine were the smaller version and SK138s were the larger versions of the W5k. Mine pads touched while SK138's dangled freely with more than a half inch clearance.

[boomana]

Reporting in on my 3rd day with the ATH-ESW9s. I'm happy. I haven't tried out any reference CDs, or really any CDs since the first couple hours, nor have I really been listening critically. I'm just messing around and enjoying them. Been trying out different portable amps and going ampless with an imod and ipod. Though they sound okay and more than loud enough, even at mid point with an ipod's volume, after listening to two days with different amps, two songs in without an amp had me out of bed and looking for one. Sq suffers without. Tried them with the PRII, Diablo, SR-71, and mini3. Right now the Diablo on high gain (which I wouldn't call high gain at all) has been the best match. Can't wait to get my Pico, and see how that goes.

These are somewhat laid-back headphones, with decent detail, imaging, balance. There's something a little funky happening tonally in the mids, mostly upper mids, and but I can't quite place it yet. I'll have to bring out the CDs I know best, and not just keep things on shuffle. So far I haven't been in the mood to bother. These are very enjoyable headphones, and I've been enjoying them. The bass and lower mids are the most enjoyable and the best I've heard in a portable headphone: fairly tight, decent tone, very present but not too much so. The highs are fine for me, and this is usually my trouble area with headphones. They're smooth and clean.

If I have one complaint other than my fuzzy questions with the upper mids, it's that they are not good headphones for rock. They are very polite headphones. Acoustic, jazz, and chamber music all sound good (I haven't thrown any symphonies at them yet), but they don't do it for rock, and metal lovers will not be liking them much at all. Right now, I'm listening to Swordfishtrombones and the ESW9s are perfect for this type of music. Earlier, I had some old Violent Femmes going, and it wasn't happening at all. Kiss Off is supposed to sound like a fuck you song, and it sounds like a let's have tea together song instead. Blech.

I think the question becomes are they worth the $300 they cost after shipping. If you're comparing them to Senns or K701s that run similarly priced or even slightly less, the answer is no. They are not as refined, and are simply not as good. But, if you need a closed portable headphone that is super comfy, doesn't require an amp (though sounds much better with), and just happens to be gorgeous while sounding really good, I think they are worth it. There really isn't anything in that category that comes close that I've heard, but I haven't heard everything, so who knows. I'm not going to be looking. These are pretty dang good.