Smeggy Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I started this chat for us general wood monkeys in the hope of getting some good tips on finishing wood. I've managed to get my stuff to a decent level of smoothness and nicely sanded without too many blemishes but some woods have a honking big and deep grain. What is a good method of filling grain to get a very smooth surface without the filler looking artificial? I've tried wetting the wood to raise the grain and smooth it down, then using wet sanding to help fill the grain with it's own sawdust. That's not too bad on the finer grain woods, the coarser stuff is still problematic. I tried some various generic wood fillers with little success, so any hints as to what is a good thin paste that would do the job while not killing the look. I have no idea how AT etc, gets that incredibly smooth surface that I'd like to achieve myself (unrealistic I know) but something vaguely similar in the level of smoothness and grain filling. If you have hints, tips, ouiga board readings I'd like to know about it. On the plus side, I actually got a tin of lacquer today and apart from stinking up the whole house, it works pretty nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I'm interested in what others have used also. About the only stuff I've used for that purpose has been sanding sealer, and I'm only quasi-sure that's what it's called because the label is all in japanese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 ...I actually got a tin of lacquer today and apart from stinking up the whole house, it works pretty nicely. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to use that in a well-ventilated area. I wouldn't mind someone with actual knowledge confirming this (rather than speaking from memory), but is it possible you're working with wood that is too green? Maybe you just need to let it dry out more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 There are several woods with a really heavy grain. Wenge really comes to mind. Personally when I choose a wood I keep the grain in mind, and instead of trying to make the grain smooth I celebrate the texture. The texture is part of the beauty IMO, but I understand that's not always ideal for others. There are a few methods for filling grain. The first is paste filler, and that usually imparts some foreign color, for better or worse. Second is sanding sealer. Multiple layers of sanding sealer, sanded between each coat, before the desired finish product works well for medium grained woods. For heavy grained woods that need to be filled I prefer Target HSF5100. It fills without adding too much color. HSF5100 High Solids Grain Filler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I agree that texture is part of the beauty; it definitely is a part of a wood's character. But I think that sometimes smoothing out the surface is needed to match a theme or other components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I'm not trying to completely hide the character of the wood, just make it look less lumpy and raggy when finished so it holds a nice smooth finish. Some of these deep/large grained woods are a real pain so I want to level up the surface a tad. I guess a clear sanding sealer would work best as it fills the grain without altering the color or structure. I'm really enjoying the lacquer too, very smooth, very fast drying and builds up nicely. Even the heavy handlig I gave it after just one hour didn't mark it at all. Anyway, I'm off to get some sealer tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Yeah lacquer is great. If you're using spray cans (or tins for the UK crowd) I like Deft the best, and it happens to be one of the least expensive as well. Home Depot and Lowes carry it. 0000 steel wool is a necessity in between coats IMO. It really gives a smooth finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I also love the great feedback you get when working with steel wool, whenever there's bump in the surface or a rough patch on the surface you instantly know. The mess it makes is quite annoying though, especially if you have any large speaker magnets nearby (fuzzy speakers, anyone?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavitsk Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I'm not trying to completely hide the character of the wood, just make it look less lumpy and raggy when finished so it holds a nice smooth finish. Some of these deep/large grained woods are a real pain so I want to level up the surface a tad. I'm no wood worker and have only used a few different types, but for finish, I sand with up to 600 grit and then use 6 to 12 layers of good quality oil. For everything I have tried this on, walnut, padauk, maple, mahogany, it leaves the wood smooth and pleasant to touch, but still feeling like wood. I can't stand the plastic coats people use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I've just been having real problems with surfaces marking up too easily after I finish. I have all the grits down to 600 plus various wire wool grades so smoothing isn't too bad, I'm not having too much joy with other finishes. I have high temp shellac, wipe on shellac, wipe on poly, spray on poly, gel poly and so on but they all mark too easily even after days drying. The lacquer is the only one so far that's gone on nicely and fixes durably hard and doesn't easily mark with handling. I only have gloss lacquer right now so I'm hoping to pick up some other stuff later today. The gloss does look nice but shows grain ridges mercilessly hence the need for subtle filler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Try out some satin or semi-flat finish lacquer, they are much accomodating with grain edges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 back from lowes with Deft semi-gloss and satin lacquer and sanding sealer. I'll let you know how it goes after I do a test on my Fostex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabeer Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Heres one I made earlier: Ok, ok you got me, im not really Audio Technica! Anyway, you can see that they have left a v.little bit of grain open on theirs. Or you trying to achieve their gloss finishes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbi1 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Vintage guitars all had sanding sealer for mahogany, as the most tried and true method, with nitrous cellulose on top. Mixed with analine dye, and anything is possible. Me, I just use 100% tung oil (not tung 'finish', which is linseed mostly) up to about 6 coats, sanding in between each, and live with the result. Absolutely perfect on rosewood, cocobolo, bloodwood, mesquite, maple and walnut. Liveable with mahogany, bubinga, padouk, etc. Oh, and real tung oil is nowhere near as wretched smelling as the cheap partial variants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 you're actually supposed to use it in a paper bag held up to your face. So I was doing it right after all! Cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabeer Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 cocobolo mmmmmm Cocobolo, sooo pretty. I miss my guitar :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I have a cocobolo blank here still wrapped in wax so I don't know it's water content until I cut it up. Hopefully it's dry but I have my doubts. If not it'll be spliteroony time and another bunch of bucks in the shitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabeer Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 lol. Ya should be careful smeggs with breathin in that stuff. I hear certain woods like Cocobolo have toxic sawdust.... (well you probably knew that, but hey, just in case). I think the Kingwood youv been using is basically a Cocobolo variant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Ah hell real men snort Cocobolo dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Ah hell real men snort Cocobolo dust. Hell yeah! Followed by huffing some paint fumes for added effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naamanf Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Ah hell real men snort Cocobolo dust. I personally like to mix it with some oak and teak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I haven't played with teak in ages. Can't recall the last time I saw teak in a woodshop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I've never seen nor worked with teak before, time to google it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I guess it's not as common as it once was, anyway, oily, biggish grain, tough as old boots and used on ship decks.... which may explain where all the wood went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanY Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I guess it's not as common as it once was, anyway, oily, biggish grain, tough as old boots and used on ship decks.... which may explain where all the wood went. Yeah, teak is seriously endangered and prices have risen like crazy, so it's no longer common. It's 3x to 5x the cost of padauk... basically on par with the most expensive woods like bocote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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