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Stax "sb" energizers. can they reach greatness?


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When using Normal Bias Stax SR-Lambdas, or any normal bias stax can; can the sb energizer, paired with a great amp, deliver sound on par with a stand alone stax amp? Or will it always be lacking?

example:

Pair a fully restored Fisher 400 tube amp -> srd-7sb -> sr-lambda (normal bias)

What level of sound can you expect from this? would the performance be on par with anything modern or classic? and is the srd-7sb the weak link here? is the standard srd-7 preferred?

I have been pondering this, as it can be much easier, and less costly to find and restore an old tube amp then to buy or build a new amp. The Fisher for example is a well regarded amp. is trying to get that sound into the stax cans a pipe dream, or does it work well?

Is anyone out there running this type of setup, or is this just a waste of energy that will not give you the results you want.

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When using Normal Bias Stax SR-Lambdas, or any normal bias stax can; can the sb energizer, paired with a great amp, deliver sound on par with a stand alone stax amp? Or will it always be lacking?

example:

Pair a fully restored Fisher 400 tube amp -> srd-7sb -> sr-lambda (normal bias)

What level of sound can you expect from this? would the performance be on par with anything modern or classic? and is the srd-7sb the weak link here? is the standard srd-7 preferred?

I have been pondering this, as it can be much easier, and less costly to find and restore an old tube amp then to buy or build a new amp. The Fisher for example is a well regarded amp. is trying to get that sound into the stax cans a pipe dream, or does it work well?

Is anyone out there running this type of setup, or is this just a waste of energy that will not give you the results you want.

Just set up that rig and enjoy it - it should sound very good. Don't put too much thought into it and just do it. A dedicated Stat amp would yield better detail but you'll be surprised at how good the SR-Lambda sound out of an SRD-7 SB and a good amp. The SR-Lambda are quite good, and compare well vs a few $300-600 modern day headphones (HD600 and RS-1 for example).

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I have no doubt that the cans will sound good. I'm thinking more of what are the limitations of the sb. From what I understand, if you have a great amp feeding it, you will get some great sound. But what is lacking? I doubt it will sound like the T2 amp, or could it? Why wouldn't it sound as good as the amp itself? Would the srd7 sound better then the fisher example with an sb energizer? In my mind it shouldn't.

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Whether the transformer unit is self bias or mains bias should have effect at all. The power needed to energize the diaphragms is so tiny that a bit of leaching of the audio signal won't matter.

That brings us back to the age old issue, amp vs. transformers. The amps have their own set of challenges but high ratio transformers built to a small price will always be a problem. The cores are too small, the winding setup is too simple and the layout inside the Stax boxes isn't doing the sound any favors. Amps all the way for me but there is also something to be said about the simplicity of transformers...

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I recently picked up the SRD-7/SB along with a set of SRX Mrk3s. Strangely, a previous owner had attached a 'phone jack to the SB so I used a spare 'phone amp. The sound was very weak and spare through the under-powered connection. I got a slightly more powerful T-amp, 12 wpc, and the sound is much improved though still lacking in some ways. Eventually I'll hook up to the tube amp and see if there is a similar improvement.

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I get the impression that my question doesnt really have an answer. I was just wondering if the sb unit is something I want to continue to persue. If it will only get to a certain level, regardless of the quality of the amp used, It would be best if I focused my energy elsewhere.

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Do you already have an amp or use for an amp? If you are buying it just for this, I'd say move on towards a dedicated amp.

Yes, I was basically running the setup I was describing. I had a restored fisher 500c that was powering the stax, but it has since been put to other duties in the house. I was deciding my next amp move with the stax when I came across a fisher 400 in need of a restore. I was generally happy with the sound I was getting with the 500c and the energizer, but I've never had any long term experience with anything other than the srd7sb. I was going to build an exstata, but I changed my mind on that.

So this is what really got me thinking about the sb units. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts about the ultimate potential of these. Or if they will always come up short in a specific area. Is it a situation that no matter what you feed into it, it will never have the bass impact of an amp? is the sb unit really just a low end piece on the ladder that should be used as a stepping stone?

I say all of this like I dislike the sb unit, and that is not the case. I am just interested in its limitations, or advantages I suppose. I have always understood that if you had a great amp feeding the sb, then the quality of said amp is what you got in return. But then again, every time I spoke of using an sb unit, people would always say that I should get a standard srd7.

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I don't think a standard SRD-7 would be any better than the SRD-7 SB. The transformer with the Fisher amp would have good dynamics but less detail than a dedicated stat amp. I also found something like my previous SRM-1 Mk2 Pro to have a bigger more holographic soundstage.

So, a vintage Stax amp like SRM-1 Mk2 Pro or SRM-T1 would sound better on a budget, but they're all getting so old that you'd want to do a refurb on them (old caps and such). That's why I said just use what you have and enjoy it - I didn't know you would be able to build an amp. If you really wanted an upgrade without going vintage, and the budget was higher than an "SRD-7 level" budget you could consider a Woo GES or build a KGSS.

The GES offered an excellent pairing with my SR-Lambda. But my SRD-7 SB out of my Eddie Current ZDT sounded closer than you'd expect to the GES, with less detail and narrower soundstage but otherwise excellent sound from the SR-Lambda. Right now I don't have a working normal bias amp, so I use my SR-Lambda with an SRD-7 SB that was modified to have the input go directly into the transformers via banana jacks, and bypass the old stock input cable and other crap. This sounds a little more detailed and transparent than my stock SRD-7 Mk2 SB (one pro and one normal jack).

Edited by HeadphoneAddict
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Thanks HA. You always come through with useful intel. I'll really start keeping an eye out for the srm1 and t1. I'll also look deeper into some of the DIY offerings. The megatron amp that kg and spritzer are heading up also looks pretty sweet.

Where or who did the mods on your srd7sb? I could probably do the same to mine. It's an idea.

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I recently picked up the SRD-7/SB along with a set of SRX Mrk3s. Strangely, a previous owner had attached a 'phone jack to the SB so I used a spare 'phone amp. The sound was very weak and spare through the under-powered connection. I got a slightly more powerful T-amp, 12 wpc, and the sound is much improved though still lacking in some ways. Eventually I'll hook up to the tube amp and see if there is a similar improvement.

I hope you aren't using the TRS plug with the t-amp as they really don't like a common ground. Same reason why the WEE should never be used with a bridged amp...

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Thanks HA. You always come through with useful intel. I'll really start keeping an eye out for the srm1 and t1. I'll also look deeper into some of the DIY offerings. The megatron amp that kg and spritzer are heading up also looks pretty sweet.

Where or who did the mods on your srd7sb? I could probably do the same to mine. It's an idea.

Audiocats on the other forum modified it for me, and also added pro-bias to it on one of the jacks (plugged the center pin to convert to 5-pin). He also did a great job modifying my SR-001 Mk2 with better opamps and caps. He did it for the cost of parts as a favor.

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