all high end out of production hp owners...

[postjack]

Whether you own an HP-2, L3000, R10, a K1000, or some other spendy OOP can, I'd like to know your thoughts.

Do you ever think that someday a can will be produced that will do everything your can does, but better, and at a decent price, causing the market value of your can to plummet? Or do you think your particular can will always command a premium in the marketplace?

[aerius]

I hope someone makes a better K340 for cheap, but I honestly doubt it'll even happen. I look at the way companies are voicing their headphones these days, and it tends towards blandness instead of having character like the classic 'phones. The musical fun just ain't there these days, and I don't know if it'll come back.

[humanflyz]

I agree with Aerius: most OOP top-tier cans had their own character which makes them instantly recognizable, even if that means they each had a flaw as well.

Nowadays, every manufacturer is trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[humanflyz]

Forgot to say: it seems to me like the old top-tier headphones are works of art, whereas today's headphones are just commodities. I think that the manufacturers, back in the days, actually had an aesthetic vision which they pursued with very little or no compromise, so the results were headphones that really showed the vision of their designers, and you as the buyer can either take it or leave it, but you couldn't deny that they represented an artistic vision.

These days, it just seems like headphones are designed by committee with no underlying aesthetic philosophy, more of "let's see what we can do to make the least offensive sounding headphone to the most amount of people for the most margin."

[n_maher]

Do my HD580s count? \

[Ben Gramain]

Forgot to say: it seems to me like the old top-tier headphones are works of art, whereas today's headphones are just commodities. I think that the manufacturers, back in the days, actually had an aesthetic vision which they pursued with very little or no compromise, so the results were headphones that really showed the vision of their designers, and you as the buyer can either take it or leave it, but you couldn't deny that they represented an artistic vision.

These days, it just seems like headphones are designed by committee with no underlying aesthetic philosophy, more of "let's see what we can do to make the least offensive sounding headphone to the most amount of people for the most margin."

Qualia?

I know that's OOP as well but it's only been a year.

[HiWire]

To respond to the OP - it's possible someday, but I'd rather be listening now. Also, I probably can't afford any more high-end cans.

[Dusty Chalk]

Do you ever think that someday a can will be produced that will do everything your can does, but better, and at a decent price, causing the market value of your can to plummet? Or do you think your particular can will always command a premium in the marketplace?

Where is the "I don't care" option? I don't own out of print phones as an investment, I own them because they're good headphones. And because headphone manufacturers are idiots and stop making really good headphones (I'm especially thinking of the Grado HP-1000 series and the AKG K1000's).

And it's not because they're out of print that I covet (for example) the K1000's -- it's because they're really good headphones.

Also, I have some out-of-print headphones that are not coveted so much -- do you know why? Because headphones came out -- in some cases, by the same company (Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser) -- that does everything mine does, but better, at the same or better price, rendering these headphones unsalable to any but the most desparate buyer.

Well, also because I'm too lazy to sell them.

[postjack]

I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts. I think that "I don't care, I want to listen now" is a healthy attitude to have.

However, I can't share the cynicism that all manufacturers only appeal to the lowest common denominator, and that all the great cans have been made. I still expect Sennheiser to create something truly remarkable, a la the mythical HD700. And though it is not to everyone's taste, the HD650 is a marvelous headphone that does so many things well, and at an incredible price. The W5000 may not be perfect, but I think it is a very good headphone, and I see no reason why Audio-Technica won't continue to innovate in the high end can market.

But then of course we have the GS-1000... don't get me wrong, this is a fun headphone for some music, and the bass is wonderful (its the only can I've used where I can actually feel SPL, or at least it does a damn good job of faking it), but it ain't an HP-2 or an RS-1. But John did make the PS-1, which I've never heard but folks seem to enjoy.

k, gotta do homework, more thoughts later.

[Dusty Chalk]

...the only can I've used where I can actually feel SPL, or at least it does a damn good job of faking it...

Denon D5000 using a modified balanced 4-pin connection out of thrice's Beta-22 has some of the best bass I've ever heard -- I'd love to hear a modified-for-balanced PS-1 out of that thing -- the PS-1 is pretty out-of-control with most amps. It's a bit much. It needs a total dominatrix of an amp not to sound bloated.

[humanflyz]

Denon D5000 using a modified balanced 4-pin connection out of thrice's Beta-22 has some of the best bass I've ever heard -- I'd love to hear a modified-for-balanced PS-1 out of that thing -- the PS-1 is pretty out-of-control with most amps. It's a bit much. It needs a total dominatrix of an amp not to sound bloated.

Yeah the D5000s have very good bass, even out of my AE-2. I am going to have them re-cabled/balanced when I go back to CA.

[purk]

Yeah the D5000s have very good bass, even out of my AE-2. I am going to have them re-cabled/balanced when I go back to CA.

Yes, a lot of bass, but I don't think the bass has the textured or the extension of the L3000. Same can be said with the Ed. 9 and JVC DX1000.

Regarding the question, I would love for the manufacture to produce a better headphone than my favorites (R10, L3000, and Qualia) for a lower cost. But I doubt that will happen. Sony is not a fan on reissue a new line of headphone every two or three years. In fact, it took them nearly 10 years to revise the CD line. I also wish that Sony didn't pull the plug on the Qualia. The Qualia 010 has a lot going for them and if you can fit them ....you are in for a real treat. I still have hope that the next highend limited AT headphone and a new flagship Sennheiser will be amazing.

[Nanoha]

Regarding the question, I would love for the manufacture to produce a better headphone than my favorites (R10, L3000, and Qualia) for a lower cost. But I doubt that will happen. Sony is not a fan on reissue a new line of headphone every two or three years. In fact, it took them nearly 10 years to revise the CD line. I also wish that Sony didn't pull the plug on the Qualia. The Qualia 010 has a lot going for them and if you can fit them ....you are in for a real treat. I still have hope that the next highend limited AT headphone and a new flagship Sennheiser will be amazing.

If Sony hadn't pulled the plug on the 010, I would have bought one as soon as I had the money. But now it's almost impossible to find one in the used market. I'm guessing it'll be almost two decades before Sony brings a new top tier headphone to the tables. Audio-Technica will most likely have something great in a few years, but I doubt it'll be very soon.

[postjack]

I still have hope that the next highend limited AT headphone and a new flagship Sennheiser will be amazing.

This is where I'm looking towards as well. I still think the HD650 is a hell of a can in its price range, but I'm prepared to pay a hefty price tag for a badass high end Sennheiser dynamic (the mythical HD700).

My only experience with AT is the W5000, but I think it is a very intersesting can.

[deepak]

Yes, a lot of bass, but I don't think the bass has the textured or the extension of the L3000. Same can be said with the Ed. 9 and JVC DX1000.

Regarding the question, I would love for the manufacture to produce a better headphone than my favorites (R10, L3000, and Qualia) for a lower cost. But I doubt that will happen. Sony is not a fan on reissue a new line of headphone every two or three years. In fact, it took them nearly 10 years to revise the CD line. I also wish that Sony didn't pull the plug on the Qualia. The Qualia 010 has a lot going for them and if you can fit them ....you are in for a real treat. I still have hope that the next highend limited AT headphone and a new flagship Sennheiser will be amazing.

purk I think the Qualia 010 would have been fantastic if they were one size fits all. I think Sony was being too ambitious in making a statement product for the elite, trying to make a pseudo custom fit headphone (with the fit chart, 3 sizes). I have heard two pairs; the medium that didn't fit me sounded truly awful. The small that did was incredible.

[deepak]

Oh yes really good to see you here purk, your posts on Headfi are always very informative and well written

[hungrych]

Whether you own an HP-2, L3000, R10, a K1000, or some other spendy OOP can, I'd like to know your thoughts.

Do you ever think that someday a can will be produced that will do everything your can does, but better, and at a decent price, causing the market value of your can to plummet? Or do you think your particular can will always command a premium in the marketplace?

I hope something like that is produced, because even then the market value of my L3k wouldn't go down, and I could get better SQ with less money!

[postjack]

I hope something like that is produced, because even then the market value of my L3k wouldn't go down, and I could get better SQ with less money!

I guess this is actually a valid point. Lets say by some amazing miracle AT produced a can that at least approached the L3K's greatness (I am assuming it is great since it is probably now officially the most owned high end can on HC, i've personally never heard it), and for a quarter of the cost. The L3K would still retain its status and probably still command its high price tag because audio is such a subtle and subjective thing, and because many would still prefer the sound of the L3K. But the rest of the chumps could have their "l3k-lite" or whatever.

[purk]

I guess this is actually a valid point. Lets say by some amazing miracle AT produced a can that at least approached the L3K's greatness (I am assuming it is great since it is probably now officially the most owned high end can on HC, i've personally never heard it), and for a quarter of the cost. The L3K would still retain its status and probably still command its high price tag because audio is such a subtle and subjective thing, and because many would still prefer the sound of the L3K. But the rest of the chumps could have their "l3k-lite" or whatever.

I do hope that AT come out in the next year or two with another highend limited edition; however, I can't that see they will come out with something that cost less but will sound as good. They probably can but let's face the fact that they issued the W2002 as a commemorate product while the L3000 was released to secure their place as one of the best dynamic headphones out there. So you guys better save up for their next offering b/c their next best headphone will be more expensive than the L3000.

OTOH, I suspect that the new Sennheiser will be amazing, b/c their HD-650 is no longer considered as a top tier headphone.

[granodemostasa]

that senn's gonna have an msrp of something like 1K, so it damn better be good (otherwise i'll jump on the K1K bandwagon).

[aerius]

I guess this is actually a valid point. Lets say by some amazing miracle AT produced a can that at least approached the L3K's greatness (I am assuming it is great since it is probably now officially the most owned high end can on HC, i've personally never heard it), and for a quarter of the cost. The L3K would still retain its status and probably still command its high price tag because audio is such a subtle and subjective thing, and because many would still prefer the sound of the L3K. But the rest of the chumps could have their "l3k-lite" or whatever.

If the above happened, I suspect the L3000 will indeed retain its value due to it being a limited edition item. I think a good analogy would be say, cars. Let's take the Jaguar E-Type or the Mercedes Gullwing, both of them can be said to be pretty darn good way back in the day with performance that was pretty hard to match. In later years, Mercedes & Jaguar have both built cars which will smoke them in performance, but the damn things not only hold their value, they actually cost more with each passing year.

[postjack]

that senn's gonna have an msrp of something like 1K...

you got a source on that?

[aerius]

you got a source on that?

Probably the same source that said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq...

[hirsch]

purk I think the Qualia 010 would have been fantastic if they were one size fits all. I think Sony was being too ambitious in making a statement product for the elite, trying to make a pseudo custom fit headphone (with the fit chart, 3 sizes). I have heard two pairs; the medium that didn't fit me sounded truly awful. The small that did was incredible.

The size issue was probably less of an issue in the demise of the Qualia 010 than its fragility. There is no support in the band beside the earpieces, which is the area of maximum torque if an earpiece has any force exerted on it. I managed to break two of them, and I'm not particularly vicious with my headphones. The service costs (and Sony waffled on servicing, but finally did it), probably ended the headphone. If it had undergone some serious beta testing among real headphone users prior to release, I suspect it could have survived in different form. It would not have been as light, but would have had some durability.

[hirsch]

that senn's gonna have an msrp of something like 1K, so it damn better be good (otherwise i'll jump on the K1K bandwagon).

If you can't find Sennheiser at a discount, you're not trying.