Yikes Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 As scandal after scandal is revealed, and the current government passes law after law basically dismantling the great society, tax cuts where75% of the cuts go to the richest 1% of the population, tax cuts when the deficit is at unparalleled levels, Soldiers dying for no known reason, I can?t help but wonder where is the Fucking OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 That's why Presidents get a maximum of 2 terms/8 years only... he'll be gone in 2 years, and it's unlikely that the damage will be irreperable. Though, the next president is going to have a horrible job of getting out of Iraq - I'm not sure there is a 'good' way of doing it, but it has to be done, and that responsibility will not fall to dubbya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Apathy is probably the most common thing in the universe after stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 The Bush administration has a great strategy. They do absurd things so much that it the people eventually become numb to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Enigma Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 As scandal after scandal is revealed, and the current government passes law after law basically dismantling the great society, tax cuts where75% of the cuts go to the richest 1% of the population, tax cuts when the deficit is at unparalleled levels, Soldiers dying for no known reason, I can?t help but wonder where is the OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!! > Who do you think pays 90% of the taxes? Who do you think creates new jobs? I economics there is a point that by charging less that you will make more because people won?t be looking for ways to avoid it. If you have not noticed taxes go up as you make more? you want to cry about stuff being unfair try telling me how it is ?fair? to tax some people much more then others when there are some people that are living here rent free. That's why Presidents get a maximum of 2 terms/8 years only... he'll be gone in 2 years, and it's unlikely that the damage will be irreparable. Though, the next president is going to have a horrible job of getting out of Iraq - I'm not sure there is a 'good' way of doing it, but it has to be done, and that responsibility will not fall to dubbya. Maybe someone can explain to me the humanitarian mindset... so lets see... we are horrible for not helping the poor that are being massacred in the middle-east.... we are horrible for trying to help... if we were to pull out then they would cry once again that we are not helping and if we stay we are horrible people... seems like a bit of a catch 22 to me... I am sorry but there reaches a point that trying to be civil with people simply will not work. Islam is a religion that doesn?t like indifferent pansies and will not stand for weakness. The only thing the rulers of those countries associate with is death and fighting. There is no court or aid group that will convince them otherwise. I have family, friends, and coworkers that are directly involved in the war and not a single one of them after having been on tour thinks we are in the wrong... if only the media would show you the other side of the story. The Bush administration has a great strategy. They do absurd things so much that it the people eventually become numb to it. What absurd things are we talking about my friend? There is a reason you are able to live the life you do in the place you do without fear... and it is not be sitting back and turning another cheak all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 What absurd things are we talking about my friend? There is a reason you are able to live the life you do in the place you do without fear... and it is not be sitting back and turning another cheak all the time. I'd say it started with the Patriot Act, and went downhill from there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Enigma Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I'd say it started with the Patriot Act, and went downhill from there.. You can thank the Senate for that if you like. I don't like it either and I think the govet has greatly over steped its bounds but that is not the fault of any one president or party. I'll complain! I can't stand stupid people that either don't care or don't have the capacity to think for themselves. If you want to cry about something empower yourself to do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Who do you think pays 90% of the taxes? Who do you think creates new jobs? I economics there is a point that by charging less that you will make more because people won?t be looking for ways to avoid it. If you have not noticed taxes go up as you make more? you want to cry about stuff being unfair try telling me how it is ?fair? to tax some people much more then others when there are some people that are living here rent free. Maybe someone can explain to me the humanitarian mindset... so lets see... we are horrible for not helping the poor that are being massacred in the middle-east.... we are horrible for trying to help... if we were to pull out then they would cry once again that we are not helping and if we stay we are horrible people... seems like a bit of a catch 22 to me... I am sorry but there reaches a point that trying to be civil with people simply will not work. Islam is a religion that doesn?t like indifferent pansies and will not stand for weakness. The only thing the rulers of those countries associate with is death and fighting. There is no court or aid group that will convince them otherwise. I have family, friends, and coworkers that are directly involved in the war and not a single one of them after having been on tour thinks we are in the wrong... if only the media would show you the other side of the story. What absurd things are we talking about my friend? There is a reason you are able to live the life you do in the place you do without fear... and it is not be sitting back and turning another cheak all the time. I think we have similar opinions, however I personally can't really support Bush's actions. Not because I disagree with them - on the contrary, I have supported many of his ideas. However the implimentation has been so lacking in effectiveness and achieving what it actually set out to acheive (Iraq is a fine example, though there are many others) that the detractors are proven right, not by the original conception necessarily being wrong, but by the failure to impliment it successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 ...it's unlikely that the damage will be irreperable...Tell that to the dead soldiers. No, I'm outraged, Bush is a weasel when he's not being an idiot ("subliminable", indeed), and hungrych got it right that they just keep doing more and more outrageous things 'til we become numb to it. He's got no problem lying, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Tell that to the dead soldiers. Quite right - and even with the war, it still didn't have to be that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 He's got no problem lying, too. That's true of most people when their ass/arse is on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 That's true of most people when their ass/arse is on the line.Dude, we're talking about the president of the United States here. He is legally held accountable for every one of his actions, and a system should be in place to enforce that. Not only that, he needs to be a role model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Enigma Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Tell that to the dead soldiers. No, I'm outraged, Bush is a weasel when he's not being an idiot ("subliminable", indeed), and hungrych got it right that they just keep doing more and more outrageous things 'til we become numb to it. He's got no problem lying, too. People die every day... it is the fact of a healthy and unhealthy life. It is part of the job description and one that the people know full well is possible to happen. It is no more dangerous then any other job. Heck I feel like I am going to die every day driving to work with the nuts NJ drivers. I would like to see you guys try to lead the country better... the Presidency is no more then a figurehead. Presidents can't actually do much of anything. Also, tell me that over a 4-8 year period you will never mess up or say or do something wrong... it is only human. I could name stupid stuff that every president has said or done quite easily. That goes for just about anyone. There is also a difference between lying and being misinformed. I am sure that has happened to you before... for example people that pretend that Sonys or RSA amps actually sound good until they hear Senns or something like that Anyway... all this to say if you want to do something or change something empower yourself to do so... don?t just sit there and complain. That?s all the govet seems to do anyway. I consider my self a Republican due to many of the ethical and moral views they have but at the end of the day I think the government has more then overstepped their bounds and has no place doing much of what it does. Also, on that note, lets be realistic... how different is one president and one party from the other... they certainly do not represent the views of the people they represent the views of the politicians and those who have influence and apparently know what is best for us. I love my country and would not choose to live anywhere else but Ill openly admit there is a lot that needs working on so we don?t end up like Canada or our good French friends Maybe if the President was allowed to beat people or the Senate was a lot to have brawls like Tony Blair and Parliament we could accomplish more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I love my country and would not choose to live anywhere else but Ill openly admit there is a lot that needs working on QFT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 People die every day... it is the fact of a healthy and unhealthy life. It is part of the job description and one that the people know full well is possible to happen. It is no more dangerous then any other job. Heck I feel like I am going to die every day driving to work with the nuts NJ drivers. How dare you equate what happened and is happening in Iraq to people dying from disease, car accidents, etc. These soldiers signed up to fight in a war to defend our country. Iraq was hardly a threat to our country. Soldiers should be sent to die only when it is absolutely necessary, not because some dimwit in the White House decides they should for no reason. Iraq was completely neuterd. We had the country contained. They couldn't put anything in the air besides a helicopter without our permission. There were no WMD's becasue, contrary to everything the Bush Adm. said, the weapons inspecters did their job. Let's not forget the innocent Iragis that died at our hands invading their country for no reason. I don't think those men, women and children wanted to lay their lives down because Bush said it was time. Do you have any idea how many thousands of civilians died at our hands (somewhere between 35,000 and 39,000). Don't tell me about collateral damage. There was no need for any damage, collateral or otherwise, when there is no need for the war that caused the collateral damage. I would like to see you guys try to lead the country better... the Presidency is no more then a figurehead. Presidents can't actually do much of anything. Also, tell me that over a 4-8 year period you will never mess up or say or do something wrong... it is only human. I could name stupid stuff that every president has said or done quite easily. That goes for just about anyone. "Stupid stuff"? We're not talking about stupid stuff here. 2437 American's are dead. Well over 17,648 are wounded, many horribly due to the malfeasance and misfeasance of this President. It wasn't just stupid, it was at best negligence and at worst criminal. "Presidents can't actually do much of anything." This president has signed countless orders which in essence says he can do things, because he is the President despite laws to the contrary. Here are a couple of examples. There are 750 in total: March 9: Justice Department officials must give reports to Congress by certain dates on how the FBI is using the USA Patriot Act to search homes and secretly seize papers. Bush's signing statement: The president can order Justice Department officials to withhold any information from Congress if he decides it could impair national security or executive branch operations. Dec. 30, 2005: US interrogators cannot torture prisoners or otherwise subject them to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. Bush's signing statement: The president, as commander in chief, can waive the torture ban if he decides that harsh interrogation techniques will assist in preventing terrorist attacks. How about domestic spying. Maybe your ready to roll over and give up your civil rights, I'm not. Too many soldiers have died to defend them. Is this country so weak that we can't figure out how to defend ourselves without trampeling on our civil rights? I don't think so. There is also a difference between lying and being misinformed. I am sure that has happened to you before... for example people that pretend that Sonys or RSA amps actually sound good until they hear Senns or something like that You really believe that he was misinformed? Are you really that blindly obedient that you can't see beyond what you hear on Fox News? If Iraq had WMD's (the first but not last justification for going into Iraq), where do you think he got them from or at least who do you think condoned their use?: That's from 12/20/93 when Rummy was an envoy for Reagan, when Saddam was our best friend. By the way he is being tried for crimes that he committed when he was our best friend in the area. This visit took place at a time when we knew that Iraq was using chemical weapons in it's war with Iran and we did nothing about it. Talk about hypocracy. You can thank the Senate for that if you like. I don't like it either and I think the govet has greatly over steped its bounds but that is not the fault of any one president or party. I'll complain! I can't stand stupid people that either don't care or don't have the capacity to think for themselves. If you want to cry about something empower yourself to do something about it. Who do you think signed it into law? If the gov't overstepped it's bounds then it is this Presidents fault and no one elses. The buck stops with him. His party controls both the House and Senate. There is no oversight, he does whatever he wants. I could go on forever. For whatever it's worth, I was an volunteer voting rights attorney during the last presidential election and worked the polls on election day. I've been actively involved in a campaign for one of the people running for Governor of Florida. I contribute time and money. I will agree with one thing you said and that is we do need to empower ourselves before our ability to do so is taken away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjg Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 presidents can't do much? zach, do you know what commander in chief means? Dood... get real man. The president has much more power then you understand. The asshole signs bills, he appoints supreme court judges, he nominates people for offices... his people... It's great and all if your a good ol boy rich republican who is benefiting (carlyle group, haliburton) but if your an ordinary person, a minority, a foreigner, or anyone who has to clean up the mess generated by these fuckers it's something else. The world is a fucked up place. The president right now isn't doing a horrible thing, say as horrible as like hitler, stalin, that doesn't make light of how fucked up he is making the country. Beyond that, if you think your bubble is so well protected don't forget your perfect age and well elligible to get sucked in by a draft once he has thoroughly depleted our armed forces. Seems now that we are occupying 2 more countries, soon to maybe be 3 (if he is dumb enough to fuck with iran or korea). I guess you might have a distinct opinion on the man rather then an apathetic one. Yea, but look food for oil wasn't the real reason we dominated iraq, it was the WMD's and the horrible saddam husein who killed his own people... right. I love people who claim to be for this country, claim to support our fucked up involvement in other places in the world, but have no leaping desire to say enlist and get their own hands dirty. They love our raised standard of living, and don't know or care for a thing ouside of it. Republicans only give a shit about keeping themselves rich... they don't give a fuck about minorities, public health care, or improving our country one bit. Since bush took office, it's been one disaster after another... he has had plenty of time to make big changes and help the country, but all he has done is help his friends out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I just read a biography on Lincoln. If I was around (and allowed) to vote back when the Republican Party was first formed, I would have voted Republican. But this is a new day, and since my first vote I've always voted Democrat - and it doesn't look like there's any reason to change my Party in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjg Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 i don't mean to shit on you zach, your a buddy of mine... but your blanketed statements gotta get blasted. I don't hate republicans, and I'm actually not terribly political... A good buddy of mine is the head of campus republicans, he's a total lemming when it comes to politics but a good guy anyway. SOrry if i came off to hard on the republican stuff, but you really gotta think about the bigger picture sometime before you come off saying the president doesn't really have any power. That is like the biggest understatement i ever seen you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yikes Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 tyrion, I luv you man. Grand Enigma, You need to watch something besides Fox news. Hell! Try picking up a copy of The Nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 tyrion, I luv you man. I bet you that's a first here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 mercuttio freaked out when i handed him a copy of the NY Post to read when i went to grab the car for the Nat Meet - it's like i dropped a rattlesnake in his lap. but i actually don't mind getting that conservative rag - my wife needs it for work (page 6), i get some hilarious Sports color commentary, and it's always nice to read up on what the Post spoons folks daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Enigma Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 tyrion, I luv you man. Grand Enigma, You need to watch something besides Fox news. Hell! Try picking up a copy of The Nation. I like BBC news much better Right, and Democrats care so much more about people... when it comes down to it no one with money seems to care about the poor, democrat or republican, movie star, athleate or business man. And yes Presidents do have power but only that given to them... if you have problems with their choices they are making do something about it... there are many means to do so. Oh and oh nose Im a conservative Christian and dont like killing babies and the death penalty. Lets see what else I can do... Liberals suck, baseball is boring as anything, hotdogs taste bad, I cant stand pretzels and popcorn, and ummm I hate Florida though I might end up living there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 People die every day... Yeah, but not that many because of one person's actions.I would like to see you guys try to lead the country better... No you wouldn't. The reason it's an elected office is not because we are all equal, but because we are all voting on the fact that we think he can do a better job...nee, the best job out of all of us. Don't try to compare him to us. He got there for a reason, and now he needs to do a good job of it. That's like saying -- after a surgeon fucks up an operation -- I'd like to see you do better. No, you wouldn't. You hope he does the best possible job he can, because that's why he's paid the big bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Enigma Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Yeah, but not that many because of one person's actions.No you wouldn't. The reason it's an elected office is not because we are all equal, but because we are all voting on the fact that we think he can do a better job...nee, the best job out of all of us. Don't try to compare him to us. He got there for a reason, and now he needs to do a good job of it. That's like saying -- after a surgeon fucks up an operation -- I'd like to see you do better. No, you wouldn't. You hope he does the best possible job he can, because that's why he's paid the big bucks. I agree, he should do the best job he can, but the best job he cant isnt always the best for everyone. I am not talking about anyone specific but people are human and mess up or do not get the results they envisioned. It is impossible to expect anyone to do a job perfectly every time and in a way to please everyone. And that is why we have elections ever 4 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Apparently when killing babies are collateral damage, you don't seem to have a problem with it. I didn't give him his powers. I tried as hard as I could to prevent him from getting those powers. Once he got them it was his obligation, no duty, to use them for the better, not the worse. I don't think it's called messing up when you start a war that didn't need to happen. I don't think it's messing up when the war you started destroys as many lives as this war has destroyed. I don't think you call it messing up when a CIA operative's name is leaked in the name of political payback, jeoperdizing countless people and intellegence and then say you will punish anyone involved in that leak, then don't. It's not messing up when you order domestic spying without warrant despite a law against it. The same law that same law which provides the exact mechanism to allow you to do the spying. It's not messing up when you ignore what happened in New Orleans and Mississippi, despite knowing what was going to happen. Allowing a man to be put in charge of the agency that is suppossed to respond, with zero experience in emergency management and ignore even his warnings. The list is almost endless. If this is the best he can do, then perhaps he should step aside and let someone who can do the job. If the job is so hard as he said over and over during the debates, then maybe he should let someone who can do the hard work step in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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