swt61 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 This country needs to implement and embrace mass transit on a full scale basis. Until we come to the understanding that riding alone to work everyday in our vehicles is just stupid, we will not even begin to start solving the problem. We have become a nation of spoiled brats that want everything. God forbid this country would have to ration supplies like it did during WWII. Instead of a mass outpouring of support, there would be a mass hysteria. I'm really hoping that these high gas prices will force people to think differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Uh, that only works for urbanites. Right, Nate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckledragger Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Why do you hate freedom swt61? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 mass transit just can't work for most of the country. We don't live in suburbs and work in city centers anymore for the most part. We have mixed living and working areas, and most people live and work in different suburbs. This improves one part of their quality of life at the expense of another. Unless you're going to mandate people change this by rebuilding everything, I think mass transit is a pipe dream in this country. The real solution to the problem is increased telecommuting. The more people that are able to telework, the lower the impact on the environment. I'm able to work from home 80% of the time, which means that even tho I only get 18mpg in my nearly 30 yr old car, I still use less gas in a year than the average prius driver . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I, for one, am glad that garbage collectors and waitresses who serve key lime pie don't telecommute. And in the DC area, telecommuting is a pipe dream for a good 50% of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Even in the small town I live in there is a large influx of single occupant vehicles between 8:00-9:30 am and 4:30-6:00pm. However I was speaking primarily of large populous areas. I lived in San Francisco, and have experienced first hand what a good transit system can do. You make some good points, but I still believe there is a very viable need for such systems in even moderately populated areas (500K+). Why do you hate freedom swt61? Because I'm a communist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I still believe there is a very viable need for such systems in even moderately populated areas (500K+).I doubt anyone would argue that there's a need for growth in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'll argue that the time when it was a viable option to build a mass transit system has past. Labor is expensive, tunnelling is dangerous, and people are spread out. And if 50% of people in the DC area telecommuted, that'd be a pretty darn amazing reduction in gallons of gas used per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 i wish cincinnati had better mass transit. i take a bus to work (free with my university ID), but i think some kind of rail system would be better. The combination of underground rail, buses and electric buses, all from one monthly transit card in SF was fantastic. I sold my car within a month of moving there, and only missed it on rare occasions. Residents really don't ride cable cars there, that's just a tourist thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peanuts Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I wouldn't mind having some mass transit system that I can take to work either - I hate driving and I'd get more use out of my portable rig. Of course, I'm now only ~10 miles away from work so I may just get my bicycle tuned up and ride to work, at least while the weather is nice. I paid $4.70/gal yesterday. That's just crazy. Mine was $4.09/gal today. Still cost me $42 to fill up my tank - I'm really glad that my Civic continues to get great gas mileage (37-42 mpg). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Dan, At some point the economics of building such systems just isn't going to matter since it's going to be the only way to get around. But Dusty's right, mass transit isn't an option for me although I certainly could do my part and get a more fuel efficient vehicle to commute in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 ...mass transit isn't an option for people like me...Didn't mean to single you out, you are just a familiar and extreme example. They can barely get it within them to do something as suburban as run Metro out to Dulles airport and/or the purple line -- what're they going to do for people in West Virginia? And yes, I do mean the entire state. It's just so spread out, that the notion of mass transit is simply naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 This country needs to implement and embrace mass transit on a full scale basis. Until we come to the understanding that riding alone to work everyday in our vehicles is just stupid, we will not even begin to start solving the problem. We have become a nation of spoiled brats that want everything. God forbid this country would have to ration supplies like it did during WWII. Instead of a mass outpouring of support, there would be a mass hysteria. I'm really hoping that these high gas prices will force people to think differently. We have a winner. In the long term the suburbs are fucked, period. People won't be able to afford living there unless they're fucking rich, they can move closer to their workplaces or end up in seriously massive debt. People won't be able to afford blowing through several gallons of gas for grocery runs & other errands in addition to their commutes, and futhermore, stores in the suburbs will be out of stock on items since truckers won't be able to afford the diesel to drive the goods out into the boonies. Anything that's not near an urban centre, rail line, or river barge or ship accessible is boned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 We have a winner. In the long term the suburbs are fucked, period. People won't be able to afford living there unless they're fucking rich, they can move closer to their workplaces or end up in seriously massive debt. People won't be able to afford blowing through several gallons of gas for grocery runs & other errands in addition to their commutes, and futhermore, stores in the suburbs will be out of stock on items since truckers won't be able to afford the diesel to drive the goods out into the boonies. Anything that's not near an urban centre, rail line, or river barge or ship accessible is boned.You are such a fucking know-it-all sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Dan, At some point the economics of building such systems just isn't going to matter since it's going to be the only way to get around. But Dusty's right, mass transit isn't an option for me although I certainly could do my part and get a more fuel efficient vehicle to commute in. TAKE YOUR BIKE Also, Damn I miss NYC. :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I think eventually when more Americans have grown tired of financially bleeding out their ass, they'll say screw it and commence with offshore drilling. So many other countries are doing it. Not doing so simply because it might upset environmentalists is a luxury we cant afford. The whole pie-in-the-sky ethanol thing has backfired, and now we have expensive food and no new gas, as opposed to before, when it was just no new gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Yeah seriously, it's getting prohibitively expensive for me to take swt out on (g)ates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I think eventually when more Americans have grown tired of financially bleeding out their ass, they'll say screw it and commence with offshore drilling. So many other countries are doing it. Not doing so simply because it might upset environmentalists is a luxury we cant afford. The whole pie-in-the-sky ethanol thing has backfired, and now we have expensive food and no new gas, as opposed to before, when it was just no new gas. Sounds great on paper. Too bad it does jack & shit for oil & gasoline prices, it just makes the oil companies even richer than they already are. The EIA has done a case study on lifting offshore drilling restrictions, and concluded it won't do jack to help the consumer. Excerpt: The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 It would be a long time before we saw any physical oil, I agree. But having the public aware of new efforts would likely influence the speculation in our favor, I think. It certainly couldn't hurt in that area.\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Just because it'll take 10 years to see a benefit is no reason not to drill. You think that we won't need the oil in 10 to 20 years? The real question (for me) is whether or not there is a sufficient quantity of oil to justify the expense and risk. If it is cost prohibitive to extract it then that'd be a good reason not to do it, time is not a good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 The US uses 7.5 billion barrels of oil every single year, while there's an estimated 18 billion barrels & change in the areas currently closed to drilling. That's only around 2.5 years worth of oil at current consumption rates. The long-term solution to running out of oil isn't to drill more, what needs to be done is developing and building a new infrastructure and transportation system. In short, lots of electrified rail transport, electric cars where needed and nuke plants with full fuel reprocessing and breeder reactors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Since estimates put ANWR alone at between 11.5 and 30.5 billion barrels of oil, I'll have to assume that you're just being an ass. Not surprising, since I already assume any time you speak your intent is to be an ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 We're going to run out eventually, anyways -- we might as well start looking for alternatives now. Prices are only going to go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Learn to read you illiterate dumbass, we're talking about offshore drilling, ANWR is not offshore, shit for brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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