Azazel Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Only managed to find 1 comparison, and that was in TAS. Robert Harley (TAS) is really very excited about the Berkeley, but I am not sure if this is of any real significance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atothex Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Robert Harley (TAS) is really very excited about the Berkeley, but I am not sure if this is of any real significance... Yeah, he says it's like the best high rez DAC he's ever heard, but I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS. He compares it to a CD player but then tells me that it's not a good comparison, because they're totally different. 2 digital sources that both do redbook are that different? A real peeve of mine is reading general statements like "best blah blah I ever heard" or "betters products costing twice as much" without any reference. Is your $500 amp better than a $1000 Amphora? Or a Beta22 that cost $1000 to build? Am I, the reader, expected to know everything they've ever heard by heart? I bet they're just going from memory and different system components, too. I could be all wrong, though; maybe Robert Harley is a paragon of a reviewer who's heard everything under the sun. Am I supposed to know this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopstretch Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I could be all wrong, though; maybe Robert Harley is a paragon of a reviewer who's heard everything under the sun. Am I supposed to know this? He's a bit of a twit, but probably no more so than most career audiophiles. TAS's ethical practices are by repute extremely shady though, even by the low standards of the hi-fi industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yeah, he says it's like the best high rez DAC he's ever heard, but I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS. He compares it to a CD player but then tells me that it's not a good comparison, because they're totally different. 2 digital sources that both do redbook are that different? A real peeve of mine is reading general statements like "best blah blah I ever heard" or "betters products costing twice as much" without any reference. Is your $500 amp better than a $1000 Amphora? Or a Beta22 that cost $1000 to build? Am I, the reader, expected to know everything they've ever heard by heart? I bet they're just going from memory and different system components, too. I could be all wrong, though; maybe Robert Harley is a paragon of a reviewer who's heard everything under the sun. Am I supposed to know this? You might figure out that Harley is a pretty serious reviewer from the fact that he is editor in chief of TAS and has more than 700 audio equipment reviews published, as well as books, etc. I understand your comment to an extent, but you have to read the context of his article and you pretty much understand what he is getting at. Plus, there can be some lame comparisons made, but when somebody like Harley says it it the best Redbook playback he has heard, that is saying a lot because he has heard and reviewed everything. You can take it all with a grain of salt if you think he or all of the audio press shills, etc. And Andrew is right, Harley is a bit of twit. He was ultimately comparing the $5K Alpha dac to the $12K Spectral CD player, which is a very tough comparison for the DAC. I actually did this exact comparison at a store in Berkeley. The Spectral does one thing incredibly well, and that is play the shit out of CDs. It is not hi-rez and it does not have a digital input but the sound from CDs is nearly unbelievable. The Alpha does more things, is hi-rez, and sounds great. It did not sound as good as the Spectral on CDs, but then again it sounds great and way better than most things in the price range for CD playback. Add to that fact that the Alpha is much more suited to hi-rez and with that is sounds simply fantastic and you have a lot more to offer for the money. Of course, I am still curious to do a much more thorough comparison of my Amarra Model 4 or JP's Sonic Model 302 against the Alpha because the first time at CJ09 was messed up and inconclusive. I may try to get an Alpha for the August 9 meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 AD18 eh? Probably AD1853.. that was Filburt's hypothesis. Also used in Spectral (Who's designer Keith Johnson also had a hand with the Berkeley Audio dac since those are his old co-people from PacMicro) SDR-4000 and the Benchmark DAC-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_me Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 You might figure out that Harley is a pretty serious reviewer from the fact that he is editor in chief of TAS and has more than 700 audio equipment reviews published, as well as books, etc. I understand your comment to an extent, but you have to read the context of his article and you pretty much understand what he is getting at. Plus, there can be some lame comparisons made, but when somebody like Harley says it it the best Redbook playback he has heard, that is saying a lot because he has heard and reviewed everything. You can take it all with a grain of salt if you think he or all of the audio press shills, etc. And Andrew is right, Harley is a bit of twit. He was ultimately comparing the $5K Alpha dac to the $12K Spectral CD player, which is a very tough comparison for the DAC. I actually did this exact comparison at a store in Berkeley. The Spectral does one thing incredibly well, and that is play the shit out of CDs. It is not hi-rez and it does not have a digital input but the sound from CDs is nearly unbelievable. The Alpha does more things, is hi-rez, and sounds great. It did not sound as good as the Spectral on CDs, but then again it sounds great and way better than most things in the price range for CD playback. Add to that fact that the Alpha is much more suited to hi-rez and with that is sounds simply fantastic and you have a lot more to offer for the money. Of course, I am still curious to do a much more thorough comparison of my Amarra Model 4 or JP's Sonic Model 302 against the Alpha because the first time at CJ09 was messed up and inconclusive. I may try to get an Alpha for the August 9 meet. Al...why did you have to say something like that about the Spectral CD player...now I'm curious again... BTW, I read that Spectral is developing another DAC + Transport that was shown at CES briefly so perhaps a competitor to the Berkeley Dac may come out in the near future. Would be nice to hear the Berkeley Dac again if you can arrange it...I'm sure Dan or I will bring the spectral dac to also compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Listening to the 4000 made me want to buy it even though I was focused on hi-rez and computer audio. It is that good, even if it is a one-trick pony. The new DAC is something that will be very interesting, especially if it has a new transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Well there's a very incestuous relationship between Berkeley Audio and Spectral.. and based on my conversations with where I bought my first SDR-2000 (Their oldest retailer) the Spectral SDR-5000 will be a cost no object take on what they learned from the Berkeley Audio DAC. Fully discrete et all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopstretch Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Based on my conversations with where I bought my first SDR-2000 (Their oldest retailer) the Spectral SDR-5000 will be a cost no object take on what they learned from the Berkeley Audio DAC. Fully discrete et all. Any hints on what cost-no-object might actually cost, roughly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I bet the combo will be $18-20K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atothex Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 You might figure out that Harley is a pretty serious reviewer from the fact that he is editor in chief of TAS and has more than 700 audio equipment reviews published, as well as books, etc. I understand your comment to an extent, but you have to read the context of his article and you pretty much understand what he is getting at. Plus, there can be some lame comparisons made, but when somebody like Harley says it it the best Redbook playback he has heard, that is saying a lot because he has heard and reviewed everything. You can take it all with a grain of salt if you think he or all of the audio press shills, etc. And Andrew is right, Harley is a bit of twit. He was ultimately comparing the $5K Alpha dac to the $12K Spectral CD player, which is a very tough comparison for the DAC. I actually did this exact comparison at a store in Berkeley. The Spectral does one thing incredibly well, and that is play the shit out of CDs. It is not hi-rez and it does not have a digital input but the sound from CDs is nearly unbelievable. The Alpha does more things, is hi-rez, and sounds great. It did not sound as good as the Spectral on CDs, but then again it sounds great and way better than most things in the price range for CD playback. Add to that fact that the Alpha is much more suited to hi-rez and with that is sounds simply fantastic and you have a lot more to offer for the money. Of course, I am still curious to do a much more thorough comparison of my Amarra Model 4 or JP's Sonic Model 302 against the Alpha because the first time at CJ09 was messed up and inconclusive. I may try to get an Alpha for the August 9 meet. Yeah, I'll readily admit that I'm not up on my audio guys; thanks for some perspective. I didn't really doubt his credentials so much as I would've liked more specific comparisons than the one. It seems like his comparison came to about the same conclusion as yours. If the August meet also has a Spectral (can I assume that? ), that'd be pretty awesome. I'm just hoping the Sonic Studio/Metric Halo compares favorably, so I can just buy a good cheap source already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Nobody will have the Spectral SDR-4000S that I heard, but Min and Dan have the older version of the dac, SDR-2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadrangulum Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Of course, I am still curious to do a much more thorough comparison of my Amarra Model 4 or JP's Sonic Model 302 against the Alpha because the first time at CJ09 was messed up and inconclusive. I may try to get an Alpha for the August 9 meet. If you can't get one locally, I'm willing to volunteer my unit for the meet. I won't be able to attend unfortunately but I'd love to read those comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Question about how Amarra handles security- does the USB key send an authenticity certificate to their server when iTunes is opened or something? Does it require the computer to be online in order to use the software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadrangulum Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Nope. It just needs to be plugged into the Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Any hints on what cost-no-object might actually cost, roughly? I heard ~15k for the dac alone.. I have to assume the transport is around there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I heard ~15k for the dac alone.. I have to assume the transport is around there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Any hints on what cost-no-object might actually cost, roughly? I bet the combo will be $18-20K I heard ~15k for the dac alone.. I have to assume the transport is around there as well. Andrew, give them a call. Maybe you can convince them to make a no-cost-object version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Haha.. well it's somewhat moot since god knows when it'll be released ;p We might see it in 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp11801 Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Ill be interested in the Alpha/amarra 4/sonc studios 302 comparisons. I harbor no dillusion that the 302 will finish third my curiousity is by how much. Oh the spectral cdp is divine, if I had money shooting out of my ears I'd buy one. I was totally intrigued by the demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atothex Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Man, I'm retarded. Didn't realize the SDR-4000S Pro was a current production unit... didn't think it'd be much different than the SDR-2000 DAC, but I guess it is. Anyways, it's looking more and more likely that I'm eventually gonna buy one of these Berkeley units used. Woot Berkeley. Despite the students' relative unattractiveness, we sure pump out some good nerds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Woot Berkeley. Despite the students' relative unattractiveness, we sure pump out some good nerds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I don't know that any of the key people actually went to Berkeley. I think they just live there, but you guys do pump out some good nerds sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloaudio Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 AD18 eh? Probably AD1853.. that was Filburt's hypothesis. Also used in Spectral (Who's designer Keith Johnson also had a hand with the Berkeley Audio dac since those are his old co-people from PacMicro) SDR-4000 and the Benchmark DAC-1 Just to add to the list, after a quick search the following also use the AD1853: Accuphase: DC-101, DP-55V, DP-75V, DP-77 Audio Aero: Capitole Mark Levinson: 390S Micromega: CD 10, 20, 30 Nagra: DAC Orpheus: Orpheus One T+A: CD1230R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 ^^^ The Berkeley people invented Spam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.