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The stock geometry frame on my Calfee is more than the Titanium Firefly at list price. Not that bad. Not cheap either. Where bikes usually get crazy are the bits and bobs.

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Not sure if still available but someone on one of my list serves has a full SRAM Red 2012 kitchen for $750. I would be happy to be a go between if anyone wants.

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Firefly custom road frame is $4,000 v. $2550 from DeSalvo. At $4000 I would probably be looking at Calfee, Crumpton and Landshark.

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Someone got a pretty good deal on my 2010 Roubaix Comp Rival, with less than a year on new Force derailleurs/crankset, Red shifters, 1100mi on a new chain and cassette, and 1500mi on the original Mavic Aksium wheelset. Hated to see it go, but old habits die hard, as I've always been happier to have one road bike.

I do however have just about all the parts coming in next week for a singlespeed commuter build, on a late 90's 60th Anniversary Schwinn Paramount (Reynolds 853). Its quill stem and steel fork cool.

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Firefly's are beauties but pricey. Mike DeSalvo does the welding on many of the Speedvagen bikes.

Firefly's are too beautiful for me, price-wise.

Otoh I can't say that I didn't spend a couple of days last week re-familiarizing with the updates at Dave Kirk's website. Price range? Check. Desirability? Check. Delivery wait? Right now just within range. New decals? Hmmm, can live with it.

Edited by pigmode

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Not sure if still available but someone on one of my list serves has a full SRAM Red 2012 kitchen for $750. I would be happy to be a go between if anyone wants.

Full Red with cranks? What length?

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Full Red with cranks? What length?

I missread: SRAM Red shifters, RD and Brakes, Force Crank, FD and Cassette. Less of a good deal now but still a good deal: 175mm 53/39

Firefly's are too beautiful for me, price-wise.

Otoh I can't say that I didn't spend a couple of days last week re-familiarizing with the updates at Dave Kirk's website. Price range? Check. Desirability? Check. Delivery wait? Right now just within range. New decals? Hmmm, can live with it.

I guess I'm very lucky that the 750 isn't really an issue but to me if you really want a Firelfy I don't see how a 10-15% upcharge (on the bike total cost) isn't worth it. I'm not saying it's worth the upcharge I'm just saying making that decision based on cost doesn't make sense to me.

Edited by Dreadhead

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(forever is very relative when I am involved).

You are being too hard on yourself Mike rofl.gif

I would go custom with the road and non-custom with the mtb, resale on mtb stuff isn't good, and I am not sure any mtb frame would last forever... maybe one just ridden on packed singletrack or something

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Hate agreeing with deepak!

Then again, two custom road bikes will keep you from the Crumpton, so tough call.

It's not as much the MTB FRAME lasting forever, as say, the fork. Knowing Mike, he'll go high end, or one step down. That will typically be using the most advanced/newest tech. He'd probably want to go with a 1.5" HT, and then he could use more things, by changing headsets, no? There's the bottom bracket issue going forward as well (remember, we're talking "Upgrade Mikey" here).

Just let DeSalvo build what they think will win awards, so you can have a trophy to go along with your kit.

**BRENT**

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I'd go road bike, Mike. Sell the Gunnar when the other is done and use the proceeds for the MTB. I'm with pak in that I wouldn't want a custom MTB but not dueto resale. The mtb is probably going to see a lot more abuse and if I'd paid even retail for my bikeiydbe hard to chuck it around and have real fun on it.

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Hate agreeing with deepak!

Then again, two custom road bikes will keep you from the Crumpton, so tough call.

It's not as much the MTB FRAME lasting forever, as say, the fork. Knowing Mike, he'll go high end, or one step down. That will typically be using the most advanced/newest tech. He'd probably want to go with a 1.5" HT, and then he could use more things, by changing headsets, no? There's the bottom bracket issue going forward as well (remember, we're talking "Upgrade Mikey" here).

Just let DeSalvo build what they think will win awards, so you can have a trophy to go along with your kit.

**BRENT**

Have the fork steerer diameters changed that much over the years? I know this tapered thingamabob is new, but besides that I thought they were pretty much only a few options

edit: ok looked up my ancient Indy, it's 1 1/8" diameter. You can still buy forks from RS and Fox with that steerer diamter.

A hardtail mtb frame should be future proof as well; as long as one is happy with the geometry/ride/etc. All just theory, not the route I would go.

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1 1/8, 1.5 tapered, 1.5 straight.

He's looking at 650b, and Fox only makes 2 forks for that. The 34 Float 27.5 is 160mm, which is going to be way overkill, and the 34 TALAS 27.5 which is 120/160. Both are only offered in 1.5 tapered. Down the line, who knows?

**BRENT**

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I missread: SRAM Red shifters, RD and Brakes, Force Crank, FD and Cassette. Less of a good deal now but still a good deal: 175mm 53/39

I guess I'm very lucky that the 750 isn't really an issue but to me if you really want a Firelfy I don't see how a 10-15% upcharge (on the bike total cost) isn't worth it. I'm not saying it's worth the upcharge I'm just saying making that decision based on cost doesn't make sense to me.

Ahh, I was being facetious (without trying, apparently). In truth its not at all about the cost, but about my own predilection for frame builders whose talents are more heavily weighted towards the ideals of frame geometry in terms of bike handling.

I'm not saying Firefly is lacking, but that I know nothing of their ideas in that area. Dave Kirk is an open book in this respect, and so is Dario Pegoretti.

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I'd go road bike, Mike. Sell the Gunnar when the other is done and use the proceeds for the MTB. I'm with pak in that I wouldn't want a custom MTB but not dueto resale. The mtb is probably going to see a lot more abuse and if I'd paid even retail for my bikeiydbe hard to chuck it around and have real fun on it.

I say this.

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Went the the Specialized Demo Truck event earlier today. I took out a Venge Pro with 60mm carbon clinchers back to back twice with a S-Works Tarmac SL4 with 40mm carbon clinchers. I ended up riding the 2 bikes around 6-8 miles a each a at as stiff pace as traffic dictated. The Tarmac was a very stiff and fast bike with a lot of feedback but I felt that the Venge (unlike the Tarmac this was not a S-Works frame) was faster in that it wound up quicker and felt like it was noticeably easier to hang on to speed. It was also unexpectedly comfortable while not feeling numb like I feel my Roubaix is sometimes. It might have been the 60mm deep wheels that helped it edge out the Tarmac but I walked away from the event very impressed with the Venge which I previously thought as just a gimmick bike by a large scale manufacturer. Also learned that the new SRAM Red grouppo is really nice with decent ergonomics. It was confusing at first but the double tap system quickly grew on me. I think I still prefer Campy ergo-wise but wouldn't feel bad at all if I had to go Red.

If I could do it all over again but had to stick to Specialized I would get the Venge Pro or S-Works frame and built it up with whatever Campy grouppo I could swing at the time.

Pics:

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799925E8-0266-4EDF-97C3-05F1175BBFD0-1929-000001896C82991F.jpg

C40E9722-DF11-40AE-B9CC-6DAFE943A307-1929-00000189825B7CCF.jpg

6221D739-2FE9-4DB1-8453-558A421BA5A4-1929-000001897287DC35.jpg

2BF8EEF9-D2C8-4CBC-8344-F23BAF5E162F-1929-00000189781FA804.jpg

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(having children, your moniker brings child songs to mind right away)

You have no idea how often people tell me that! :)

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That looks like a good time. I would love to do one of those sometime, I never get to the preride bikes because no one ever has my side in stock.

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I would go custom with the road and non-custom with the mtb, resale on mtb stuff isn't good, and I am not sure any mtb frame would last forever... maybe one just ridden on packed singletrack or something

A good steel or titanium mtb will last nearly forever even if you abuse the hell out of it. My '96 Kona Explosif was raced by the factory team for a year, then handed off to the development team for another year, then dumped for cheap to some guy in BC. He rode the hell out of it for 7-8 years then had it in storage for a bit before he sold it to me, and I've been trashing it for the last 3 years. Other than a small ding in the toptube and a hell of a lot of paint chips, it's still good as new.

A good Ti bike will be even tougher than my steel frame. Friend of mine is a former pro who had a full factory sponsorship. She has a few Ti bikes which had the shit beaten out of them on world cup courses year after year, other than a few minor scratches they're all good as new. Those bikes are anywhere from 10-20 years old and have more miles and abuse on them than most people can rack up in a lifetime.

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A good steel or titanium mtb will last nearly forever even if you abuse the hell out of it. My '96 Kona Explosif was raced by the factory team for a year, then handed off to the development team for another year, then dumped for cheap to some guy in BC. He rode the hell out of it for 7-8 years then had it in storage for a bit before he sold it to me, and I've been trashing it for the last 3 years. Other than a small ding in the toptube and a hell of a lot of paint chips, it's still good as new.

A good Ti bike will be even tougher than my steel frame. Friend of mine is a former pro who had a full factory sponsorship. She has a few Ti bikes which had the shit beaten out of them on world cup courses year after year, other than a few minor scratches they're all good as new. Those bikes are anywhere from 10-20 years old and have more miles and abuse on them than most people can rack up in a lifetime.

Good to know... a serious question- why do all the 4x/DH teams race carbon bikes? Easier to repair, still lighter material (or cheaper to make carbon bikes in Taiwan, and they can push trickle down technology as a selling point in their non-WC bikes)? I'm just curious why they chose carbon over Ti when these bikes are built without any budget in mind.

It can't be because it's more durable... I hear about people getting their trail or DH carbon bikes repaired by third parties all the time.

My steel hardtail is an oldie as well and I've dumped it plenty of times at speed. I've replaced components that were broken, but the frame lives on.

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Probably because its lighter and the bike companies are selling carbon bikes so that is what the pros ride.

I personally would not get a carbon mtb. I would not want to worry about breaking the frame during a crash. With steel and especially Ti that would not be a concern.

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Probably because its lighter and the bike companies are selling carbon bikes so that is what the pros ride.

I personally would not get a carbon mtb. I would not want to worry about breaking the frame during a crash. With steel and especially Ti that would not be a concern.

But at least with downhill, strength is probably of more importance than shaving that last half kilo. These are heavy bikes with all of the shit on them. And Ti can be made really light.

I would be interested to hear if there is a quality Ti builder that will build a trail bike with 130+ rear travel (preferably on 27.5).

I wasn't considering carbon either. But there are people that have got their frames repaired several times by reputable third party carbon repair shops.

Edited by deepak

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There are Ti builders that do dual suspension but not sure any of them do 140+ rear travel.

I'll take the extra weight from steel or Ti and not have to worry about getting a broken carbon frame repaired. Still undecided on what to do but I am leaning toward my original idea, Ti road bike. This would leave me with all kinds of options for a mtb. and would save money compared to custom Ti and then having to build it up piece by piece. Thanks to those who offered advice.

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