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First day in two months the high has been below 55 and first day in almost 3 its snowed.  Hopefully this bad luck isn't a sign of how things will go with the new toy i just took delivery of.. 

Moved too far from downtown to not have a car, and I narrowed the list down to a Subaru or a Subaru, after realizing an AWD Wagon was what I needed. The BMW that was perfect was just too much of a ris

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Maybe they had to make it faster so owners could more quickly get it through the neighborhood and into the garage before neighbors noticed what a stupid looking car they drive.

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24 minutes ago, VPI said:

Maybe they had to make it faster so owners could more quickly get it through the neighborhood and into the garage before neighbors noticed what a stupid looking car they drive.

I love the very low drag coefficient of the Civic Type R.  It means the giant wing and all the aero are doing nothing, as downforce=drag.

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Lift (or downforce) to drag ratio is the driver of goodness or badness so a low drag is not necessarily bad. They claim it actually generates downforce:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-fascinating-technical-facts-about-the-new-honda-civic-type-r/

Still looks stupid.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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It's possible to generate the same downforce at a given speed with lower drag. Therefore a better lift to drag ratio being better.

 

Sorry if I'm rambling or being confusing (or wrong)

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Dreadhead said:

It's possible to generate the same downforce at a given speed with lower drag.

I'd like to see the math on that. Especially when all the competitors are .1 above the Civic. 

it's for a specific airfoil, but downforce and drag seem to be rather related... almost like diverting air causes some kind of resistance to the atmosphere.  I don't think the base Civic is incredibly more aerodynamic than the base Focus, Golf, or whatever-it-is-that-Subaru-makes.

Figure-3-Downforce-and-drag-coefficient-versus-ground-clearance-for-an-inverted.png

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23 hours ago, EdipisReks1 said:

I love the very low drag coefficient of the Civic Type R.  It means the giant wing and all the aero are doing nothing, as downforce=drag.

Downforce depends on the Cl (Coefficient of Lift) and drag depends on Cd (Coefficient of Drag), which are not the same thing. The Cd and Cl for an automobile depends upon the entire automobile, not just the airfoil, which is what your formula is looking at. What you really want is for the airfoil to provide significant lift (negative in this case) while increasing drag as little as possible. You may be wondering how I know this and it is because birds fly and people (i.e. grad students) study that shit. 

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3 minutes ago, morphsci said:

Downforce depends on the Cl (Coefficient of Lift) and drag depends on Cd (Coefficient of Drag), which are not the same thing. The Cd and Cl for an automobile depends upon the entire automobile, not just the airfoil, which is what your formula is looking at. What you really want is for the airfoil to provide significant lift (negative in this case) while increasing drag as little as possible. You may be wondering how I know this and it is because birds fly and people (i.e. grad students) study that shit. 

I'm aware of all of that (not the shit part).  The point is that the giant wing on the back of the Civic R adds almost nothing to the base car CD.  It does nothing.  It's impossible for an effective wing of that size to add nearly no drag.  The fact that the wing is hollow plastic and bounces when you touch it says everything: it was not made to actually handle aerodynamic forces.  A hollow plastic wing would be torn off very quickly, if it actually added downforce.  An effective aerodynamic element would require significant stiffness.  We don't live in an ideal world, Jim. 

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Unless you have the measured Cd with and without wing, I do not to see how you can conclude that the airfoil does nothing. Does not appear to be a conclusion based upon science and analysis but on perception of ugliness. Oh, and birds do not live in an ideal world either but their Cl to Cd ratio is pretty amazing especially for the long distance gliders.

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Because I know what the CD of the base and R versions is, Jim.  it's published, and easily searchable. Unless you think Honda has magic that no other car company has, a mere comparison and look at construction can only lead to one logical conclusion.  If you do think they have magic, well, it doesn't seem to be helping them much in F1.

I'm out on this topic.  The car is a dog, there is a reason it's "limited" here in the US, and the first owners are morons who will pay 25-50% over MSRP for an ugly Civic. 

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Oh look, an explanation  by someone with a PhD in Automotive Engineering

https://drivetribe.com/p/ZEmFReoISuu-UpRiwGcRdw?iid=E-rXx_YyTRuPWv1KDJjPRA

also monitors, and dramatic lighting / music

 

“Increasing the downforce by sacrificing the drag is something anybody can do, but that wouldn’t be very smart,” Kakinuma-san says, adding: “We put all our emphasis on improving the drag to lift balance, so we can increase the downforce but still reduce the drag”.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-new-things-we-learned-about-the-fk8-honda-civic-type-r/

cf, Negative Lift

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-fascinating-technical-facts-about-the-new-honda-civic-type-r/

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34 minutes ago, EdipisReks1 said:

The car is a dog, there is a reason it's "limited" here in the US, and the first owners are morons who will pay 25-50% over MSRP for an ugly Civic. 

 

Oh, well there you have it. Our government must be limiting this vehicle because Reks says it's a dog. And while I think it looks nice, I must be wrong because Reks says it's ugly. I guess any opposing arguments are "fake news".

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48 minutes ago, EdipisReks1 said:

Because I know what the CD of the base and R versions is, Jim.  it's published, and easily searchable. Unless you think Honda has magic that no other car company has, a mere comparison and look at construction can only lead to one logical conclusion.  If you do think they have magic, well, it doesn't seem to be helping them much in F1.

I'm out on this topic.  The car is a dog, there is a reason it's "limited" here in the US, and the first owners are morons who will pay 25-50% over MSRP for an ugly Civic. 

All that proves is that the airfoil does not significantly change the overall drag of the vehicle. You are then assuming that also means it is not providing any negative lift. I am not assuming magic, I am assuming good engineering by people with degrees in fluid dynamics, but not magic. By the way, I also think that the airfoil is pretty ugly and it is definitely not my style. Nevertheless, I do have confidence that Honda can design a great vehicle because my CRX was a great vehicle in its time.

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You still can't have my Bud Lite. .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But only because I really like you and wouldn't let you do that to yourself.

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Round 4 of the AX season tomorrow and we have 9 drivers and 6 Focus ST entrants. My buddy is going to co-drive my car and I would hope I can at least beat him and the other guy I've been racing against thus far.

Weather looks glorious so it should be a good day.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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