Dusty Chalk Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 ...not really certain what you mean by put together more professionally since i've not seen the process...I'm not talking about the process, I'm talking about the end result. And I'm talking about the case, don't twist my words. I was saying that the case was put together more like the Musical Fidelity, Reimyo and Rega products than like the other ones you mentioned. Fucking politician -- taking a question, and then answering with your own speech about other things. You know damn well what I meant. And don't give me this shit that RS Audio "show the internals of their amps", like it's voluntary and/or appreciated. That's a whole 'nuther debate. I'm not arguing that he's slow -- this thread could have ended with the second post, in terms of answering that question. But you're going off on a whole tangent about the cases being difficult to get into when (a) they're not, and ( the fact that they are for you says more about your inability to get into them than it says anything bad about Singlepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i've built a lot of things, but nothing electrical. though, probably you already knew the answer before you asked it. Well, then your comments about the relative difficulty you had in getting into your amps surprises me even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I'm not talking about the process, I'm talking about the end result. And I'm talking about the case, don't twist my words. I was saying that the case was put together more like the Musical Fidelity, Reimyo and Rega products than like the other ones you mentioned. Fucking politician -- taking a question, and then answering with your own speech about other things. You know damn well what I meant. And don't give me this shit that RS Audio "show the internals of their amps", like it's voluntary and/or appreciated. That's a whole 'nuther debate. I'm not arguing that he's slow -- this thread could have ended with the second post, in terms of answering that question. But you're going off on a whole tangent about the cases being difficult to get into when (a) they're not, and ( the fact that they are for you says more about your inability to get into them than it says anything bad about Singlepower. why didn't you say so in the first place--a bit different then put together professionally, but whatever... i see ones' level of professionalism as a cohesive whole, but i didn't realzie you limited your question just to the chassis. my SP had rivets (headless) and others that were torked on so tight likely with an airgun, and the other SPs i've seen have had substantilly more fasteners than other similar amps and yeah i think it's easier to get inside those other amps, without question. my fastener comment still goes to the fact as to what's it look like inside and i did see the one i got as unreasonably difficult to open up. Well, then your comments about the relative difficulty you had in getting into your amps surprises me even more. i've not had difficulty getting into my amps, but for the SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 So it sounds like you are looking for transparency in regards to build quality which you feel Mikhail doesn't provide by the amount/type of screws he puts in his cases. Doesn't RSA (And others) do things like paint over caps and stuff so people aren't able to identify them? I mean I understand the need to protect your trade secrets so I have no problem with that, but that doesn't really, in my mind, put these companies who that in a different tier of open-ness. That is if you are questioning what kind of parts peeps are putting into their amps in addition to the quality of build. I think pretty much every headphone amp builder has QC issues from time to time as well as deadline issues (Pretty much every company I know of has had delays or a long wait time which usually perhaps to a lesser degree is badly estimated) as these things are hand built and if a large # have a high degree of customization its tricky. So though Singlepower may be really bad with deadlines (I feel they are generally pretty good and sometimes exceptional with build quality as long as its not a rush job...), but no one company is really squeaky clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 certainly i would like to see some more SP amp guts besides the three i've seen over the past four years.remember back when 6moons reviewed the mpx3 Mikhail refused to let them take pics of the inside for the article.i believe the reason given patent pending, which imo is highly suspect. also iirc, the reviewer indicated 6moons would not review another SP product because they felt they weren't leveled with properly.i guess i don't understand the reluctance and utterlack of internal pictures even by owners. it's as if there is some sort of moratorium on posting internal pics of any SP amp.i seriously doubt any amp manufacturer is doing anything new and novel that would justify having to hid it from anyone.in fact, anyone can buy one of these amps and check out the insides.generally knowing what's under the hood, build quality, and making it easier for the customer to check that, in fact, all those costly upgrades were included is imho all good things. i agree, quality control issues and/or missing deadlines has been something that most if not all amp makers in our community have dealt with.though, it is doubtful that most if not all have made it a common practice while at the same time still giving unrealistic delivery dates repeatedly knowing full well that they will not be filled.the issues rate ive heard and read about over the course of this past year has only been increasing.i realize customization and personalized service takes time and possibly even more time on particular orders, but three, six or even 12 months is really pushing beyond all rational comprehension.i wish i could see more SP build quality beside the recent mega buck one that took something like a year and still had issues upon delivery (and more than one delivery i believe).i only wonder how the average amp looks insides, average wait time, number of empty promises made and percentage of delivery dates gone unfilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Whoa, 5 pages! Thanks for all the info. All this makes me, as a first-time SinglePower customer, feel much better. 1. I'll be prepared for a long wait. 2. I'll send daily emails and call twice a day. 3. I'm starting with already-built and working 2nd hand amps, so the wait shouldn't be that bad. One is pretty much maxed and shouldn't require much upgrades. 4. I won't go for special one-of-a-kind customizations and will stick with stock options. 5. I'll make sacrifices to the Hi-Fi gods every day and hope to receive fully-working amps with no issues. International shipping back and forth is going to kill me, and I'll sell the amps off instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirsch Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 2. I'll send daily emails and call twice a day. Time that Mikhail spends answering email and phone calls is time NOT spent building amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Time that Mikhail spends answering email and phone calls is time NOT spent building amps. he could get rid of 80% of the phone calls and e-mail if he actually had a decent, up-to-date informative website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirsch Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 certainly i would like to see some more SP amp guts besides the three i've seen over the past four years. I've been thinking about your problems, and I think I've come across a solution. You should special order a Singlepower amp in a clear acryllic case. You can look at the guts all that you want without having to learn how to use an allen wrench. Expect a wait time of 12-18 months (Custom chassis work is a bitch. Ask Justin how the chassis affected delivery time of the Aristaeus. Or, look at the time between any of Ray's working prototypes shown at meets and actual production of an amp, although that's a bad example, as most of Ray's chasses are off the shelf). Most people who buy tube amps should not be opening them up. I'll say it again. Tube amps contain lethal voltages, and also have large capacitors that can hold a charge for months and years. If you don't know high-voltage safety, keep them closed. Fine if a builder wants to show off his work, or someone who can work safely opens an amp and take pictures. Not so fine if a first-time amp buyer opens an amp and takes a hefty 200 to 400 v shock. Do you know high-voltage safety procedures? Do you have some idea where it would be dangerous to touch if you've got an amp open? Would you be happy if you had an amp open and your small kid reached out to a large cap to say "what's that"? The SinglePower amps are built for sonic excellence, with attention to safety issues, not for your visual gratification. If visual gratification is that important to you, buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirsch Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 he could get rid of 80% of the phone calls and e-mail if he actually had a decent, up-to-date informative website. No kidding. I've been harassing him about that for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I've been thinking about your problems, and I think I've come across a solution. You should special order a Singlepower amp in a clear acryllic case. You can look at the guts all that you want without having to learn how to use an allen wrench. Expect a wait time of 12-18 months (Custom chassis work is a bitch. Ask Justin how the chassis affected delivery time of the Aristaeus. Or, look at the time between any of Ray's working prototypes shown at meets and actual production of an amp, although that's a bad example, as most of Ray's chasses are off the shelf). Most people who buy tube amps should not be opening them up. I'll say it again. Tube amps contain lethal voltages, and also have large capacitors that can hold a charge for months and years. If you don't know high-voltage safety, keep them closed. Fine if a builder wants to show off his work, or someone who can work safely opens an amp and take pictures. Not so fine if a first-time amp buyer opens an amp and takes a hefty 200 to 400 v shock. Do you know high-voltage safety procedures? Do you have some idea where it would be dangerous to touch if you've got an amp open? Would you be happy if you had an amp open and your small kid reached out to a large cap to say "what's that"? The SinglePower amps are built for sonic excellence, with attention to safety issues, not for your visual gratification. If visual gratification is that important to you, buy it. Plastic and tube amps don't play very nicely most of the time. The last time i built a tube amp in a plastic case, I had to put in a small fan and make vent holes. The plastic was warping form the heat. I know you were joking, but IMO its not a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Yeah almost all the makers need a better website. I haven't seen RSA's redesign but I'm guessing it could still be improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Yeah almost all the makers need a better website. I haven't seen RSA's redesign but I'm guessing it could still be improved. Headroom and Meier (from what I've seen) are the only ones who make a consistent effort to keep things current. Ray's is usually ok, visual dislikes aside and ignoring the spelling and grammar, Ediie Current's is pretty ok, and Mikhail's is quite frankly an embarrassment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I've been thinking about your problems, and I think I've come across a solution. You should special order a Singlepower amp in a clear acryllic case. You can look at the guts all that you want without having to learn how to use an allen wrench. Expect a wait time of 12-18 months (Custom chassis work is a bitch. Ask Justin how the chassis affected delivery time of the Aristaeus. Or, look at the time between any of Ray's working prototypes shown at meets and actual production of an amp, although that's a bad example, as most of Ray's chasses are off the shelf). Most people who buy tube amps should not be opening them up. I'll say it again. Tube amps contain lethal voltages, and also have large capacitors that can hold a charge for months and years. If you don't know high-voltage safety, keep them closed. Fine if a builder wants to show off his work, or someone who can work safely opens an amp and take pictures. Not so fine if a first-time amp buyer opens an amp and takes a hefty 200 to 400 v shock. Do you know high-voltage safety procedures? Do you have some idea where it would be dangerous to touch if you've got an amp open? Would you be happy if you had an amp open and your small kid reached out to a large cap to say "what's that"? The SinglePower amps are built for sonic excellence, with attention to safety issues, not for your visual gratification. If visual gratification is that important to you, buy it. i don't like acryllic.an allen wrench is not a problem, it's headless rivets that require a specialized tool and/or drilling.if the Aristaeus was made out of arcyllic i doubt it would have taken as long since metal work is tedious and painstaking especially considering the level of detail and care HeadAmp put into each of those chassis, but i agree Mikhail would need at least 18 months for an acryllic chassis as you said.can't forget Justin is a one man operation and a perfectionist.i can't say the same about Mikhail and how many employees does he now have, five, six... it doesn't reflect favorably on Ray or Mikhail that is takes them so long.in fact, i seriously doubt someone like Kevin Gilmore or Craig Uthus would take nearly as long on similar projects, it isn't as if the wheel is getting reinvented.it's always best to proceed with caution, but we're only talking about opening and looking not touching. visual gratification isn't at issue, it's seeing what's insideand wondering why so few SP internal pics have ever been posted. since you're such an expert and have opened them in the past why not show us the insides of your SP amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 the only rivets on any of my Singlepowers were used to attach components to the case, they had nothing to do with opening it. Reks, you might as well argue with him about the sky being blue. He clearly has no interest in hearing what any of us have to say, only in continuing the discussion for reasons that escape me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 the only rivets on any of my Singlepowers were used to attach components to the case, they had nothing to do with opening it. the one i received had been... Reks, you might as well argue with him about the sky being blue. He clearly has no interest in hearing what any of us have to say, only in continuing the discussion for reasons that escape me. the sky is blue i disagree with your second sentence, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i would like to see pics of a single power that has rivets holding it closed. And I would like to see pictures of Jennifer Love Hewitt naked, I'd wager both are equally likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLoudG20 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 pervert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Reks, you might as well argue with him about the sky being blue. He clearly has no interest in hearing what any of us have to say, only in continuing the discussion for reasons that escape me. i still don't understand what 909's beef with SP is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i don't like acryllic. an allen wrench is not a problem, it's headless rivets that require a specialized tool and/or drilling. if the Aristaeus was made out of arcyllic i doubt it would have taken as long since metal work is tedious and painstaking especially considering the level of detail and care HeadAmp put into each of those chassis, but i agree Mikhail would need at least 18 months for an acryllic chassis as you said. can't forget Justin is a one man operation and a perfectionist. i can't say the same about Mikhail and how many employees does he now have, five, six... it doesn't reflect favorably on Ray or Mikhail that is takes them so long. in fact, i seriously doubt someone like Kevin Gilmore or Craig Uthus would take nearly as long on similar projects, it isn't as if the wheel is getting reinvented. it's always best to proceed with caution, but we're only talking about opening and looking not touching. visual gratification isn't at issue, it's seeing what's inside and wondering why so few SP internal pics have ever been posted. since you're such an expert and have opened them in the past why not show us the insides of your SP amps? The last one is my old toaster style MPX3. Is it bad, yes, but it worked fine. And you can see how the quality has improved since then. There are plenty of reasons not to buy from SP, but yours are not one of them. I fail to see how having an overbuilt chassis is a bad thing. Your chassis comments also make no sense, Justin can take that long because he is a one man operation and a perfectionist, while Mikhail and Ray cannot? Kevin Gilmore doesn't even make amps, and your constant pitting of SP against EC is getting old. Please stop getting into pissing contests whenever somebody brings up another tube amp manufacturer. To answer the OP's question further, the best way to go with SP is definitely to buy used. Because the product itself is great, but the hassle of getting one new is unbearable. Try to find one that already has all the options you want, and make sure that any upgrades are ones you absolutely want and know will make an improvement, and have been done before to your particular amp. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i still don't understand what 909's beef with SP is. You are one among many. And Mikhail has never been shy around me about showing the insides of his amps. At the first Boston meet that I met him at he had populated pcb's on display, they were very nicely done. Also, PTP wiring always looks a bit ragged unless you go insane routing everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 To answer the OP's question further, the best way to go with SP is definitely to buy used. Because the product itself is great, but the hassle of getting one new is unbearable. Try to find one that already has all the options you want, and make sure that any upgrades are ones you absolutely want and know will make an improvement, and have been done before to your particular amp. Good luck. x2. The market is just about always saturated with various SPs. Personally I would love to have a Supra XLR or another balanced SP (does Mikhail even do a balanced MPX3 or Extreme?) specifically for use with the HD650, but it just ain't in the financial cards right now. So nobody say "dew eet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 He's done a balanced extreme yeah. Akathariel or whatever has one. Also, yes the Aristaeus chassis looks amazing ;p But the ES-2 chassis doesn't look shabby either! Also, I happen to like the Maestro chassis very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 He's done atlast 1 of each (I know of atleast 2 balacned MPX3s and 3 Extremes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F1GTR Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 But the ES-2 chassis doesn't look shabby either! Well I would hope so, considering it's a 5 figure amp. Although it still doesn't look like one IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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