Help w/new amp. Surrender to...?

[barmar46]

Looking for an "endrig" in "till death do us part" or "till my ship comes in." Was leaning toward Pete's new Monster TTVJ but concerned about it's brightness and reports that it may not be as involving as some other choices and well it is $6000! Then there's the BHSE but that marries me to electrostatic when the Monster has such dynamic versatility. And now I'm hearing alot about Craig's amps: the Nautalus and the Balancing Act. However I just talked to him yesterday and they really seem to be on the back burner in terms of production and distribution. So that leaves the Zana Deux and the HD-2(which I know nothing about but have only heard about in passing) I know the ZD is significantly less money the all the amps above.

But...my bottom line criteria is SQ: full, rich warm sound. Not too bright (certainly no harsh or edgy highs, no boomy or muddy bass) I listen to acoustic singer acoustic guitar stuff and jazz primarily. I want things to sound natual and immediate. Humam and alive. I don't want to even know there is any gear between me and the music/musicians.

Oh, my source is a Exemplar Denon tube stage output modded cd player. I currently have two bal headphones: HD650s(Equinox), K701s(APureSound)

Chime in, if you please~

And yes, I know some of this is redundant from other threads but now that I have my source I can focus on my amp.

[aerius]

There's some decent tube options with the TTVJ amp so I wouldn't be too concerned with reports of brightness or lack of involvement. The tube that's going to make most of the difference in sound is the 7N7, so if you want a fuller sound you could grab a couple of the grey glass National Union tubes.

[Icarium]

Shrug... if I were in your boat the TTVJ amp is a great choice. But I guess if I had to choose between an incredibly accurate amp and a "fun-sounding" one as my end all be all rig's amp.. i would go for accuracy.

Even so... you do have some amount of power over the sound with tube rolling. So maybe you can achieve the sound you are looking for with it, but of course that's something you should verify first before sinking 6k into it.

[n_maher]

If someone desired more tweakability in the 307A I'm pretty sure that an adapter could probably be made to go from loctal to octal which would open up the whole world of 6SN7s that are out there.

[postjack]

But...my bottom line criteria is SQ: full, rich warm sound. Not too bright (certainly no harsh or edgy highs, no boomy or muddy bass) I listen to acoustic singer acoustic guitar stuff and jazz primarily. I want things to sound natual and immediate. Humam and alive. I don't want to even know there is any gear between me and the music/musicians.

Way under your price range, but I can't help but recommend a balanced beta22. It may not necessarily be "warm", but its certainly not bright, its definitely natural and immediate, definitely human and alive. Even Ray Samuels said "It doesn't sound like solid state, it sounds like music..."

But if I had the cash to blow I'd snag the Millett Monster for sure.

On an unrelated note, does your Exemplar have balanced outs? I know there is a balanced out option that John Tucker does. Anyway, without them you'll have a hard time achieving balanced drive.

[Dusty Chalk]

I've heard quite a few people happy with their Zana Deux's, though I haven't heard one myself.

If you have the dosh, though, go for the uber-Millet. One man's 'bright' is another man's 'detailed'.

[n_maher]

Can you even buy a Zana right now? I thought that the second run was sold out? If it's still available I'm hard pressed to go against the advice being given, Craig is one of the good guys.

[Voltron]

For Eddie Current, the only option you have identified that is a current production option is the Zana Deux, and as Nate points out it is unclear whether there is a current, current run. The ZD is a very nice amp, but I don't think it comes close to the 307A. It is not as flexible, it is not balanced, it does not reach the resolution and detail and transparency that are easily rendered by the 307A. I have always thought of the ZD as a somewhat soft focus, warm style of amp that emphasizes musicality at a cost. I thought of the SP MPX3 in its original 6SN7 stock model in much the same way. The HD-2 was made once for JP#s and has not been repeated and I don't think it could be because Craig does not have the NOS Tango transformers he used in it.

As for the TTVJ/Millett 307A amp being bright, I disagree entirely. It is detailed (as Dusty predicted one might say) but it is not bright or etched or edgy at all. Source is going to dictate sound more than the amp as it is currently configured, and your Exemplar Denon source should be pretty warm on its own. Plus, there are tube-rolling options that could have an impact on the overall sound. I enjoyed my time with the 307A immensely and listened to it almost exclusively over my SP SDS-XLR except when comparing the amps. There have also been impressions from 4N6 and Riceboy who were comparing the 307A to the B52, which is a warm and "big sounding" amp. I am not sure where 4N6 came out, but I think the B52 is on its way out.

Speaking of the comparison, the SDS is a very "involving" amp and when you switch from one presentation to the other you could react as JP#s did by saying there is a different level of the "suck you in" factor. The SDS is a the better sounding amp overall to my ears and tastes, but it is also a one-off, two-box quite special amp that cost more than double the 307A. It also sounds pretty bad in single-ended mode. That cannot be said for the 307A that sounded great with single-ended cans and some have even used it with IEMs.

Looking at the market right now, and for the foreseeable future, I cannot imagine a better option than the 307A if the price tag is within reach. Just my opinions, and I am not saying any of it to diss the other amp makers mentioned: I own 1 SP amp, 2 Eddie Current amps, 1 Moth amp (Craig's former company), and both an amp and a phono stage by RSA.

[Icarium]

Way under your price range, but I can't help but recommend a balanced beta22. It may not necessarily be "warm", but its certainly not bright, its definitely natural and immediate, definitely human and alive. Even Ray Samuels said "It doesn't sound like solid state, it sounds like music..."

But if I had the cash to blow I'd snag the Millett Monster for sure.

On an unrelated note, does your Exemplar have balanced outs? I know there is a balanced out option that John Tucker does. Anyway, without them you'll have a hard time achieving balanced drive.

Uh if he's calling the 307A bright then the beta22 is gonna be too bright for him too.

[guzziguy]

I thought that the 307A was a bit to the bright end of the spectrum, but not really bright. It is a great, detailed amp that does dynamics and prat really well. However, I preferred the EC Nautilus. It had more of the "suck you in" factor for me. Too bad you can't buy one, at least yet. This was with listening to my balanced Grado HP-2 on both amps. I also think that Al's SDS/XLR is the best sounding dynamic headphone amp that I've ever heard.

[postjack]

Uh if he's calling the 307A bright then the beta22 is gonna be too bright for him too.

I guess, but I don't see how anyone could call the beta22 bright.

[barmar46]

Thank you everybody. Appreciation x2. One note to qualify: When I was posting on the Source thread about getting the Exemplar Denon 3910 mod I did say it had no digital outputs. I thought the consensus was that would be no problem even in balanced situations going from RCA to RCA ,analog. Did I missunderstand? (A balanced mod is about $2000!)

[postjack]

On the majority of balanced amps, you need balanced analog outs (XLRs) on your source to run your headphones using balanced terminations (either 3x3pin XLR or 1x4pin XLR). I believe there are rare exceptions to this rule, like the GS-X which I think I recall justin saying does the singled ended conversion to balanced. But regardless of whether or not an amp does this, you do need a source with balanced analog outs into an amp with balanced analog ins and balanced analog headphone outs in order to achieve the maximum benefit of balanced drive (Hertsens).

However, most balanced amps do include standard RCA inputs and 1/4in plug headphone outs, allowing the user to use the amp single ended.

[barmar46]

Turns out however I got the notion that the 3910 was just analog out was a mistake. It has both optical and coaxial. Read it in an old review of the Denon I found online and got confirmation from seller. Awaiting delivery of said source. Oh boy!

[barmar46]

I still have my Headroom Balanced amp/dac so until I choose a new amp I thought I would use a digital connection to make use of the HR dac.

[grawk]

You are spending thousands of dollars on it because the analog outs are better than the HR dac.

[Jon L]

I listen to acoustic singer acoustic guitar stuff and jazz primarily.

Then I don't see how you can NOT "marry" yourself to a good electrostat system.

[deepak]

I listen to mostly rock and bop and I'm engaged to my electrostat system

[barmar46]

Oh, Mr. "E.R." I don't think you're being an ass at all. When I don't know I find it quite helpful to have it straight back to me. And to make sure I can clarify connotation as well as dennotation. Is it a declarative statement in "Yes it is worth a couple of thousand dollars to have the analog out of the Denon mod "(which again is only temporarily matched w/the HR amp/dac) or is it more an emphatic question of alarm and dismay in: "You are spending thousands of dollars on it because(you think) the analog outs are better than the HR dac( and you are waisting your $)?" I sorta figured that analog outputs were better but I didn't want to have a source that had anything left off. Silly. Irrational. OK. But, then again, this is big bucks to me and I'm not much in the know and...this used piece of gear is not returnable.

(One more note: I tried to download spellcheck and my computer will not do it. I recognize I spell words wrong frequently. I just want to acknowledge that I have a brain dissorder that really messes up my memory and processing abilities. So appologies for all the mistakes in spelling and sometimes in confusion or repetition in my content.)

[Dusty Chalk]

(One more note: I tried to download spellcheck and my computer will not do it. I recognize I spell words wrong frequently. I just want to acknowledge that I have a brain dissorder that really messes up my memory and processing abilities. So appologies for all the mistakes in spelling and sometimes in confusion or repetition in my content.)

I think a lot of us have that, it's called, "being on the internet" -- if you see words misspelled often enough, you begin to forget what is correct.

And to answer for Jacob -- yes, the whole point in upgrading your source is to find something better than the DAC of the HR. If you use the digital, you're not even hearing those improvements that you've paid for. Well, most of them.

[barmar46]

Electrostat system? Do I hear any kind words for the BHSE/Stax Omega MKII?

That's where I started in the first place. I'm still on Justin's list. But I didn't hear much encouragement for that set up in reference to my musical preferences? And hopefully the Exemplar Denon 3910 tube output stage mod scales and synergizes well w/that combination. I am doing alot of amp juggling here. There's the 307A, and the Natulus and Balancing Act, and Kevin and Justin's Blue One. I'm in need of balancing myself.

[grawk]

There should be a review (or at least extended impression) coming of the exemplar 2900 + BHSE + O2 from the DC meet on Aug 2.

That source, if you don't like it, should be easy to resell.

Don't sweat the small stuff, it's music, enjoy it.

[barmar46]

E.R. I would really appreciate a very serious response from you regarding what I should buy? And as a side bar...I had a conversation awhile with ASR when I was starting this exploratory adventure. He told me straight out that he too thought the amp was the least important element of the chain and I know how invested he is in sources. He thought I just hadn't found my headphone yet and suggested I focus in that area. (I don't know if I agree there, but I'm open to it all right now.) Just a side bar. So please tell me what you think!

[postjack]

barmar, head-case is a fine community and you will learn TONS about audio if you stick around and keep doing what you are doing. and if you don't like your new source you can always sell it to ole' PJ on the cheap.

[barmar46]

Well Reks, here's one for you...the fellow who is selling me the Exemplar came up with the same recommendation. And an offer. He is a audio dealer among other things in the music industry(really a nice man) and he has a pair of ATC SCM 20-2 active speakers(demos) that he wants to give me for $4000. I did some research in the internet and calling around and I found nothing but great reviews. Also new prices ranged from $8,300 to $10,000. One dealer told me that Flat Earth, the American Distributer, no longer had any and the ATC was not going to continue making this model because they could not get enough a specific component part from one of their sources and didn't want to be embarrassed by not being able to meet the high demand (Who knows how much bull's in there?)

The problem that did come up is the this dealer hoped he could get me out the door in the $5k range including cables, stands and volume pod of some sort. But when he checked deeper into it he found it requires a certain level of preamp and even with his discount to me(which I think is generous and genuine) I'm up to over $7000 which I may not be able to pull off.

I really appreciate your offer to come listen to your set up. I live in Starville, MS. Not all that far from Cincinnati. I'd love to vist if I get the chance. We have some similar music choices. And what kind of system/speakers do you have? What would you recommend for me? Do you know the ATCs?(long post!)