shaizada Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Me again... So, I'm now looking for a decent phono stage. I've decided that I am going to place my turntable at the back of my room (17ft from front to back). Basically, I want to keep the analog rig far away from the subs etc. at the front of the room. The cartridge is a Clearaudio Accurate and here are the specs on that: Accurate A further improvement in the search for superior pleasure, when listening to analogue records can be achieved by auditioning the Clearaudio Accurate MC cartridge. The greater precision in craftsmanship, utilising the most innovative manufacturing and testing facilities available results in unprecedented quality and reliability, creating a cartridge with particularly excellent data (channel separation for instance). The body of the "Accurate" has a hand-polished, heavy gold plated and tempered surface, displaying the same technical precision as all other cartridges of the Clearaudio family. All Clearaudio cartridges are placed very close to the border of technical ability, a result of tireless research for many years. Design principal Moving Coil System with 24-Carat gold wires Housing material MgAlSi-Alloy Total mass 12 grams Stylus TRIGON II, diamond tip radius 5x40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 You might want to check into the new Eddie Current phono stage - it sounded pretty sweet at CanJam on the Zana Deux, for under $1000. I neglected to get details because I don't do vinyl anymore, although I am open to the idea again. I just hated the cracks and pops and cleaning, and warpage, etc. I gave up my Harman Kardon linear tracking turntable around 1989, about 5 years after I got into CD's (I think that was the brand). My first turntable was around 1972 and I'd just had enough of them by the time I sold my last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks for that suggestion. I had called up Craig and talked to him about it as well. You totally reminded me again as I had forgotten about that conversation. That is definitely a good option at $900. Once my table comes in, I would really have to hear that phono in my system. I don' think it would be a problem as he is about 45 minutes away from my place. Excellent idea. Thanks HeadphoneAddict. I think I will also give Woo Audio a call and see if Jack has any ideas as well. I know he can come up with custom orders and has a pretty good turn around. I like his "sound" as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 17 foot cable is just asking for trouble on many fronts. It would be much better to run the amplified signal that distance, or consider a wall mount shelf at the front of your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 17 foot cable is just asking for trouble on many fronts. It would be much better to run the amplified signal that distance, or consider a wall mount shelf at the front of your system. What would you suggest as the maximum length for an rca from tt to phono pre? I was thinking of moving my tt to a position on the side of the room, probably requiring a phono cable abotu 7 or 8' long. I've seen a number of setups in larger rooms than mine with the tt off to the side closer to where you would sit when listening. Would a better option be to move the phono pre with the tt to the side and then run ic's to the preamp? Curious as to what your thoughts are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I don't know any absolutes, but I would think the higher level the signal is the better before running thru a long IC. The signal straight from the cartridge is such a low level; usually mV IIRC. So yes, phono pre with the TT, then to the preamp would be my guess. This is also what balanced is for... long cable runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think you want the phono stage as close to the turntable as possible, as that's where you have the lowest level signal, so noise has the greatest chance of causing problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) As close as possible, not only for noise reasons, but the longer cable will effect the frequency response (ahem). it's quite easy to calculate if you know all the variables. I'd need to know: inductance of the cartridge (sometimes given by the manufacturer) coil resistance of cartridge (again, given by manufacturer) resistance of cable (per foot, or for 0.5m and 7' say) capacitance of cable input resistance of phono stage input capacitance of phono stage It might be hard to gather this data, but if so, you can easily model the difference and even calculate an optimal loading with the longer cable. I could help you, or you could read and use the calculators here: http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html Edited June 16, 2009 by luvdunhill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks for the input. Would using a balanced phono pre (next to tt) with balanced cables to a preamp then balanced to the amp be a way to do this without being too concerned with the cable length (as Pars mentioned)? My amp is balanced. I've considered picking up a balanced preamp and phono pre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yes, that would solve the drawbacks, IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yes, that would solve the drawbacks, IMHO Cool, I will need to see what I can find in a reasonably priced balanced phono pre and preamp. I know PS Audio has a balanced phono pre for $1000 new, probably $600 or so used. I would have to commission my cable builder to build me some balanced cables. The cost may require me to wait a bit before taking the plunge. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think the pass xono is balanced, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 $1650 used. Probably very good but more than I want to spend at the moment. Clearaudio makes a balanced phono pre. The PS Audio has a volume control so I could go with that and have my vinyl rig balanced and my digital rig SE until I get a preamp that has balanced capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Juan had this one, which I liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Ok guys. I've purchased the last phono stage I will every buy in my life because spending this kind of money just makes me scared! Anyhow, it's the end of the line for me as far as budget is concerned. I've purchased an Einstein "The Turntables Choice" Phono Stage: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks for the input. Would using a balanced phono pre (next to tt) with balanced cables to a preamp then balanced to the amp be a way to do this without being too concerned with the cable length (as Pars mentioned)? My amp is balanced. I've considered picking up a balanced preamp and phono pre. If this is the case, make those XLR cables as long as you'd like. Especially if you are using solid state stuff. What about the Aqvox? It's pretty decent sounding, IMHO. Also, the Ayre P-5xe, depending on the price these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks. I already put Nate on notice. Nice phono pre. Sorry for partially hijacking your thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks. I already put Nate on notice. Nice phono pre. Sorry for partially hijacking your thread. I think the manual for the Ayre P-5xe shows how they recommend to build the XLR to RCA connectors, if I'm understanding what you plan correctly. If not, then please ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 $1650 used. Probably very good but more than I want to spend at the moment. Clearaudio makes a balanced phono pre. The PS Audio has a volume control so I could go with that and have my vinyl rig balanced and my digital rig SE until I get a preamp that has balanced capability. What, no XR-10B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks. I already put Nate on notice. Nice phono pre. Sorry for partially hijacking your thread. No problem Also, here are some of the specs for the various pieces: Clearaudio Accurate Design principal Moving Coil System with 24-Carat gold wires Housing material MgAlSi-Alloy Total mass 12 grams Stylus TRIGON II, diamond tip radius 5x40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 If this is the case, make those XLR cables as long as you'd like. Especially if you are using solid state stuff. What about the Aqvox? It's pretty decent sounding, IMHO. Also, the Ayre P-5xe, depending on the price these days. I've been stalking used XOnos and they have been coming down in price as well now that the XP-15 is out. edit: d'oh didn't see that grawk mentioned that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 shaizada -- you don't fool around, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 shaizada -- you don't fool around, do you? I don't know. I'm just trying to get as close to a set-it and forget-it kind of situation. There is just so much out there and I just don't want to deal with it so much. I figured I'd try and get as solid as a setup that I can afford and be done with it. Anyhow, more searching online and I came across Steve Hoffmans setup that he has been using to do "work". I believe he has the same phonostage and the same rack that I'm using: Continuum Audio Labs CRITERION turntable installed. Bliss!! A few pictures.. - SH Forums Just look at that turntable. Looks like a dream and better sound like one for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I've been stalking used XOnos and they have been coming down in price as well now that the XP-15 is out. edit: d'oh didn't see that grawk mentioned that. My understanding is that the XONO is a world class phono stage. Have you seen the price of this one?! I was seriously considering it, but I'm not sure it has the balanced outputs: AudiogoN ForSale: Pass labs XONO The specs on it seem to be amazing. If it has balanced outs, "Dew Eet" That's one thing I've been learning from Dusty. Damn phrase keeps on repeating in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) My understanding is that the XONO is a world class phono stage. Have you seen the price of this one?! I was seriously considering it, but I'm not sure it has the balanced outputs: AudiogoN ForSale: Pass labs XONO The specs on it seem to be amazing. If it has balanced outs, "Dew Eet" That's one thing I've been learning from Dusty. Damn phrase keeps on repeating in my head. yup, balanced outputs.. and more gain then you'll ever need Also, in this same class, the Klyne Model 7PX3.5/B has balanced outputs. Edited June 16, 2009 by luvdunhill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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