Guest sacd lover Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I was advertising for a used Zhalou with a zap filter discrete output stage on head-fi. I received this pm from Ori at Oritek .... Perhaps this would do the trick for you... I'm offering a modded Zhaolu D2.5A with a discrete output stage. In my opinion it has several advantages over the Zapfilter. We can talk about that if you have an interest in purchasing the unit. The price is $475 plus shipping. A second set of RCA outputs is $40 extra. I'm also offering now a discrete headphone amplifier option for $254 extra. It will drive any dynamic headphones with the possible exception of the AKG K-1000. I've tried a K340 and it is LOUD and clear! In addition, this headamp is a superb line-stage for your speaker system. You can email me directly by clicking here. Thanks, Ori Oritek Audio ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now I find these days everyone wants to claim they have a discrete output stage and really stretch the definition. I have stated I want a good discrete design like in the ones KG does or something like the original zap filter. So, I inquired about the OMZ's discrete output stage .... I am curious about your discrete output stage. I very much like the zap filter output stage and typically do not like op amps period. How is your discrete output stage superior vs the zap filter? What type of transistors does your output stage use .... bipolar or mosfet or something else? The price of your dac seems very reasonable. I like the transformer isolation of the digital input; good idea. Earl ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I got this evasive reply .... > How is your discrete output stage superior vs the zap filter? I don't know the zap that well. My circuit is a minimal gain zero-feedback with 2 stages only, just enough to achieve good filtering and sufficient dynamics. I use matched devices so my implemetation is not surface mount. The DC servo circuit is tuned to stiffen the extreme low bass in a very minimalistic way. Nothing added, nothing taken away. The circuit is extremely simple as a result of constant refinement to achieve all goals with the least electronic processing. It is not an exercise in cost saving. > What type of transistors does your output stage use This choice is not a "religious" issue. I use what's suitable for the task and pick the best sounding design. You can get good sound from any type if you follow good design goals and you're willing to test circuits "on the edge". In the end, that's what it takes to achieve optimal designs - walking on the edge between minimalelectronics and sufficient fidelity... Ori -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After this reply I have more questions than I did to begin with and I still no idea if he really has a TRUE discrete output stage like I want or not. Does anybody have an idea what the Ori discrete output stage REALLY is and if the design is truly discrete? Here is a pic of Ori modded Zhalou discrete output stage board .... I would appreciate any input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peanuts Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I've nothing for your question Earl, but I think Ori is contradicting himself with - I'm offering a modded Zhaolu D2.5A with a discrete output stage. In my opinion it has several advantages over the Zapfilter. I don't know the zap that well. Good guy or not, how can he claim his output stage is better than Zap when he himself states that he doesn't know Zap well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I also don't believe that it's all that appropriate for a MOT to solicit business through the PM system. My thoughts about Ori, get a friggen professional looking pcb made if you're going to claim you're superior to anything. Sure, his home etched version (that's what it looks like anyway) probably works fine but come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peanuts Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I also don't believe that it's all that appropriate for a MOT to solicit business through the PM system. It's also against the HF Rules and Terms of Use, IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 It is against the HF rules specifically: A Member of the Trade may not--via the forums, Private Messaging, or Head-Fi's e-mail relay function--volunteer any information about a specific product that he is selling or making, in response to a general request for information about a type of product or in any other discussion in the Main Forums. No advertising by Members of the Trade that is not pre-approved by the Head-Fi administrators is allowed in the member forums. Some sponsors have Branded Sponsor Forums in which they will be allowed to advertise their wares. There will also be designated areas and forums where sponsors and non-sponsors alike will be able to advertise their wares. Head-Fi is most definately NOT anti-trade. In fact, trade members are a welcome and vital part of the Head-Fi community. However, Head-Fi's Main Forums, its Private Messaging System, or its e-mail relay function are not to be used for unsolicited self promotion and advertising of audio products or services. http://hfimage.head-fi.org/rules.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 It's not the first time he has sent a self-shilling PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 They let drarthurwells , among others, do the PM selling with no repercussions so why worry about this Ori guy. Back on topic anyone have any comments. Where is KG? If anyone would know KG would. Calling KG .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 I think Salt Peanuts summed it up, Ori doesn't really know the Zapfilter and yet he claims his design is better. That should raise a few red flags. Then there's this:The DC servo circuit is tuned to stiffen the extreme low bass in a very minimalistic way. This just sounds fishy, it implies the DC servo is bumping up or otherwise influencing the low bass, and if that's the case then something ain't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotoriousBIG_PJ Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 They let drarthurwells , among others, do the PM selling with no repercussions so why worry about this Ori guy. Because Ori is a hack/shill, who has a history of not knowing what the fuck he is talking about. Biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Ori has even contacted me in the past, once after I posted meet impressions and forgot to mention anything about someone with his modded stuff at a meet and once when I posted something about TOTL DACs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Because Ori is a hack/shill, who has a history of not knowing what the fuck he is talking about. Biggie. Ok, I see Ori bugs you guys and he abuses the head-fi MOT rules .... but any idea what is in his output stage from the pic? I am asking because I dont trust what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Ok, I see Ori bugs you guys and he abuses the head-fi MOT rules .... but any idea what is in his output stage from the pic? I am asking because I dont trust what he says. If you don't trust what he says, why would you trust what he sells? At some point, don't you choose to do business with people you respect instead of people you don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Hard to tell from that picture, but it appears to be discrete, as the opamp is the DC servo (probably using a dual opamp for 2 channels). I'm not sure what the metal can devices are; could be some kind of JFET or BJT. Two additional BJTs per channel. Couple of LEDs per channel probably used as CCSs. Board probably isn't home-etch, but a proto run without silkscreen/solder mask. Looks better than the Kwak clock boards I have seen from Elso... I disagree that Ori necessarily says it is better than the Zapfilter... his words were "In my opinion it has several advantages over the Zapfilter." It very well could be better than the Zapfilter, but one would have to listen to both. The statement about the DC servo stiffening the low bass I would question... a servo should have no effect whatsoever on the audio signal, although if his context is compared to an AC-coupled stage, then yes, that is a valid statement, just somewhat misleading. The zero feedback is a big plus as well in this. Does the Zhaolu use I-out or V-out DACs? I'm guessing V-out. From a parts count perspective, it is similar to something like Jocko's discrete I/V stage, although that isn't DC coupled. It would take another transistor, maybe more to do DC coupled. I have never dealt with Ori, and haven't really paid attention to all the Zhaolu stuff for the most part. From a technical perspective, his comments in the portions of Zhaolu threads I have read would lead me to believe he knows what he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 The DAC chip in the Ori Zhaolu is the AD1852 so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon L Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 I have never dealt with Ori, and haven't really paid attention to all the Zhaolu stuff for the most part. From a technical perspective, his comments in the portions of Zhaolu threads I have read would lead me to believe he knows what he is doing. Ori knows what he's doing. It's just that what he considers "neutral" and great sound may not coincide with many others. My own tastes don't completely agree with Ori's, either, but I"ll say this much. You can buy the brand new Oritek DAC for around $459, stock Zhaolu included, and certain things it does is world-class, especially midrange purity, timber, and resolution. What new DAC in that price can you say *that* about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 If you don't trust what he says, why would you trust what he sells? At some point, don't you choose to do business with people you respect instead of people you don't? C'mon, that is the whole purpose of the question. Because he could have just answered my questions directly and he was evasive instead .... I was skeptical. But, I really didnt know if what he said was true or not .... hence the question. Pars answer reflects the output stage is likely discrete. So, Ori apparently was truthful. If he is being truthful I have no problem considering the Zhalou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Ok, I'm not going to get into what I think of Ori again, but I seriously think you should report his PM. He shouldn't be pimping his wares over PM on head-fi. As for his discrete stage being superior to the zapfilter, I'll believe that when I hear it. Ori's 'designs' are all about 'simplicity/purity' just for the sake of it, and I seriously doubt that it can compete with the zapfilter. Ori does know what he is talking about to a point, but as Biggie mentioned, he doesn't know as much as he likes to make people think he does. I'm sure if you do some searching around here there is a thread that goes into more detail, but I don't have the time to get into it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 I suspect that English is not his first language, can anyone confirm? 5687 -- I wouldn't be afraid (since he's violating the rules anyway) to press your point, and try to rephrase your question -- he may be using babelfish to translate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 It's possible that English is not his first language, but he's proficient enough that he can be articulate and clear in his responses. I've met the guy and his English is fairly decent. I don't think a language barrier is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Ori can speak english, he's just a dumbass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Ori can speak english, he's just a dumbass... I dont know this man and I never paid much attention to the stock or OMZ. He clearly rubs many the wrong way. I do have a zap filter modded Zhalou and I am extremely pleased with this dac. I wanted another zap modded Zhalou but I could not find a seller. I doubt the OMZ will sound better than the zap filter mod Zhalou. But, the OMZ could still sound good. Anyway, I picked up a used OMZ 2.5A for a really good price. I will let everyone know what I think. If I dont like the OMZ I am sure I can resell to another head-fier with minimal $$ lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Anyway, I picked up a used OMZ 2.5A for a really good price. I will let everyone know what I think. If I dont like the OMZ I am sure I can resell to another head-fier with minimal $$ lost.Sweet, I can't wait to read your comparison of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I got the OMZ today. I have to say the dac is REALLY good. I am especially surprised how good the dac does bass and dynamics. All my head-fi reading had me convinced the zap filter would be much better in those areas. With a couple hours listening, so far, I consider the OMZ to be the full equal to the zap filter modded Zhalou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Will wonders never cease. Congrats Earl, I'm glad you are happy with it. BTW. Is your zapfilter modded zhaolu the same model as the OMZ and does it have the same DAC chip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Will wonders never cease. Congrats Earl, I'm glad you are happy with it. BTW. Is your zapfilter modded zhaolu the same model as the OMZ and does it have the same DAC chip? Same model 2.5D .... but the OMZ has the AD chip and the Zap filtered Zhalou has the Crystal 4398 chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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