Beefy Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 maybe, but i have a properly connected, dedicated circuit for my audio gear.... You can still get ground loops between individual components on the same circuit. I'd assume that the Brickwall has breakers between individual grounds.....? a multi socket power conditioner should also have benefit that all connected components will link to the same wall socket so differing ground values shouldn't be a problem. Is that the case? I thought that there were many circumstances where you can pollute the earth grounding. Happy to be proven wrong of course...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 whatever the baseline issue, the Brickwall fixed it. Check! Still interested to hear from anyone who thinks that boutique power cords do make a difference..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 You can still get ground loops between individual components on the same circuit. I'd assume that the Brickwall has breakers between individual grounds.....? Is that the case? I thought that there were many circumstances where you can pollute the earth grounding. Happy to be proven wrong of course...... No breakers between individual grounds. As another poster said before, the grounds must be at the same potential; otherwise its like plugging things into outlets on different circuits which is usually a recipe for ground loops. There are circumstances where PSUs can pollute the ground (actually more like noise coming back right thru the PSU); particularly those of digital equipment. PSU design is really an art (a very scientific art) from what I can see and there don't seem to be that many people that are really good at it. And alot of people have the attitude that its just a power supply; all the same, right? Puts out voltage, so its all good All I know is that when I put a DMM (or a pair of them) on supplies like the Gilmore Dynamic or on a sigma22 and see nice tight tracking and really stable readings (like not changing 0.1mV) and can't see anything on it with my Tek 465b, I'm happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckledragger Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 When I bought my GLite, the owner threw in a Shunyata <mumble> power cord. It's one of their lower end models ($125-ish). It was sufficiently excessive (30A rating, absurd gauge) that it dragged the DPS/GLite away from where I wanted it. I use it on my 5 ch Rotel amp now, which isn't going to be dragged anywhere. I'm afraid my scientific testing on the Shunyata (I think it's a Diamondback, but I can't be arsed to go look) is about as extensive as what I've done with the Quails: I plugged it in, and went on with my day. I will say this: the IEC connector on the Shunyata, while transparent and fancy looking, doesn't grip nearly as well as the ones on the Quail cables that cost 1/20th the price. This is especially annoying on Rotel components, which only have two pins in their IEC jacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 When I bought my GLite, the owner threw in a Shunyata <mumble> power cord. It's one of their lower end models ($125-ish). It was sufficiently excessive (30A rating, absurd gauge) See, this is what really shits me. You've got total crud that doesn't cut the mustard, you've got quality gear, and then you've got throwing good money into the abyss on crap like this. This is especially annoying on Rotel components, which only have two pins in their IEC jacks. Is that even legal? I was under the impression that (in Australia at least) a product has to be either earthed or double insulated before it is allowed to be sold. It would seem pretty stupid to try and double insulate a CD player...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiug31 Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 a multi socket power conditioner should also have benefit that all connected components will link to the same wall socket so differing ground values shouldn't be a problem. Is that the case? I thought that there were many circumstances where you can pollute the earth grounding. Happy to be proven wrong of course...... spotted "UNDERSTANDING, FINDING & ELIMINATING GROUND LOOPS IN AUDIO & VIDEO SYSTEMS" by Bill Whitlock http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic%20seminar.pdf I'll give it a proper read in a week or so but it seems to cover a bit p.s. I too am happy to be proven wrong, I've still much to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 spotted "UNDERSTANDING, FINDING & ELIMINATING GROUND LOOPS IN AUDIO & VIDEO SYSTEMS" by Bill Whitlock http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic%20seminar.pdf I'll give it a proper read in a week or so but it seems to cover a bit p.s. I too am happy to be proven wrong, I've still much to learn Very interesting. At initial glance, the first 10 pages or so sort-of support what I've been saying. Even on the same circuit, you can get ground pollution and earth loops between devices. Seems that EMI from transformers and any rogue capacitance are the main factors. I'll have a closer read when I have the time. Whether or not this is Edipis' problem...... doesn't really matter, as long as it was fixed. And I still don't think boutique cables do anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostonetr Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I got a bunch of Quail hospital grade power cords, from their "dentist" line (the only differences are cosmetic, the dentist cords are an unattractive putty color and lack transparent connectors.) The average price was about $7 each. I have been highly pleased with them. That said, I'll freely admit, I have done exactly zero A/B comparisons between them and the stock cords. In every instance, the Quails are between a power conditioner and the component, where they theoretically do the most good. The only caveat is that Quail has a minimum purchase of $50, which can translate to a lot of cords. Got any spares? :D I pretty much agree that money could be better spent on components, and that power conditioning shoudl be used if there's issues with the power. Where can I get thoes Volex 14awg's that were mentioned earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Very interesting. At initial glance, the first 10 pages or so sort-of support what I've been saying. Even on the same circuit, you can get ground pollution and earth loops between devices. Seems that EMI from transformers and any rogue capacitance are the main factors. I'll have a closer read when I have the time. Whether or not this is Edipis' problem...... doesn't really matter, as long as it was fixed. And I still don't think boutique cables do anything I've been reading a lot of this stuff, and I think these issues are underrated. The problem is unless you design the entire audio system yourself thinking about ground loops, and have control over the power source, there's not a lot you can do about it. The typical high-end audio system is a combination of equipment made to consumer standards, some kind of pseudo pro stuff, something untested & improperly made, and maybe throw in a computer or cable TV line somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Is that even legal? I was under the impression that (in Australia at least) a product has to be either earthed or double insulated before it is allowed to be sold. It would seem pretty stupid to try and double insulate a CD player......Sure, why not? What's the difference between this and any other component that doesn't have a separate ground lead (I.E. 2 prong plug vs. 3 prong plug)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I do tend to agree that there's a good possibility that many of the boutique audio products we buy aren't grounded properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Sure, why not? What's the difference between this and any other component that doesn't have a separate ground lead (I.E. 2 prong plug vs. 3 prong plug)? Like I said, I believe that in Australia at least, everything has to be earthed or double insulated to pass safety codes. I haven't seen a two-prong plug for years down here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Camper Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I had used standard power cords with all my equipment. I got a VD Power 1 in a give away and lived with it feeding my amp for a few months. I then moved the VD cord to my tube DAC and put the standard cord back on the amp. I immediately noticed the amp not sounding as lively or as good a sound stage (congested). The VD did make the DAC sound crisper with more details, at the loss of dynamics in my amp. I moved the cord back to the amp and the music came back to life. Don't make sense but living with it then removing it tells the truth. Between the two, the cord made more of a difference with the amp plugged into the wall. As to hospital grade receptacles. The ground pin sleeves are molded vs riveted to the ground bus in the receptacle. That is the only design difference from standard built units. The retention strength of the ground plug is tested for 4 oz on a straight pull test. Less indicates the ground pin sleeve is making insufficient contact with the pin. The main concern is a good ground reference at both 15 amp (standard) and 10 milliamp (quiet) loads. At standard amp testing, a measurement of .1 ohms impedance max. A low amp (quiet) load is .2 ohm max. Voltage measurements is another parameter of interest but can be easily achieved with normal wiring techniques so there is no change of materials or design. I can tell you that before the quiet guidelines were put into place, you could see a ground pass the 15 amp test fine, but would see 2 ohm readings for quiet testing of the same receptacle. So a little closer look at the quality of build, voltage and impedance ratings of the grounding circuits with a quiet load performance standard and a more reliable ground path are the differences from a standard receptacle. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I haven't seen a two-prong plug for years down here.They're pervasive up here and in Japan, at least. Even vacuum cleaners have two-prong plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 They're pervasive up here and in Japan, at least. Even vacuum cleaners have two-prong plugs. I don't know all the rules but unless your vacuum cleaner is made of metal it probably doesn't have to have the earth wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominatrice Posted May 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 hmmm i will have to try both i guess. I didnt think it would make that much of a difference on the HR millett since im still using the Astrodyne PS for it. I guess the cable from that to the amp itself will be a bottle neck for the new improved cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I don't know all the rules but unless your vacuum cleaner is made of metal it probably doesn't have to have the earth wireI only mentioned it, because it's one of the higher amp draws. And yeah, my point was that it only had two prongs in a perfectly legal manner. Toaster ovens, too. In fact, other than my high-fi, music, and computer gear, I can't think of too much I have that has three prongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominatrice Posted May 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I only mentioned it, because it's one of the higher amp draws. And yeah, my point was that it only had two prongs in a perfectly legal manner. Toaster ovens, too. In fact, other than my high-fi, music, and computer gear, I can't think of too much I have that has three prongs. Yep, only my PC, Audio, few peices of home theater gear have 3 prongs. I do have some power tools with 3 prongs, i know my Dustbuster charger is 3 and my battery charger for my Mikita power tool set is 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckledragger Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 ISTR a sales droid @ Spearit Sound told me that Rotel amps are grounded through the preamp via the ICs. I have no idea if this is true or not. It sounds plausible. Curiously, one of my DJ mixers (a decidedly mid-grade Gemini 626) has a 3-prong IEC, while my much more expensive ones (Pioneer and Allen & Heath) do not. Pro video editing equipment almost universally has 3-prong IEC connectors. Pro audio gear is a distressing combination of IEC3, external PSUs (wart-in-the-line and wall warts) and hardwired cords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominatrice Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 sooo curious if im going to be able to actually hear a difference...hmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeggy Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 sooo curious if im going to be able to actually hear a difference...hmmmmm I wouldn't place bets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominatrice Posted June 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 well got here today...i can certainly hear a difference...its subtle though. Highes do seem crisper then before, bass seems to have more impact...more carry. This is hooked up to my DAC atm...thinking of trying it on my amp, however there is a cable that runs from the PSU to the amp, then the power connects to that PSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.