The analog thread.

[swt61]

That's the stuff. Peanut butter also works, but requires a bit more rubbing.

[deepak]

I'm going to throw this out there in the hopes someone might know something. I have been sitting on a few Lencos for a while and from everything I have been reading a lot of work needs to be done to them before they are elevated to the level of truly top tier. At the moment I lack the skills and equipment to even think about starting this project and the modders are all fairly boutique with boutique prices to boot. My local group enablers are telling me to get a Garrard 301, which will be much more plug and play plinth wise compared to a Lenco. What do you guys think? It seems the 301s are now in the $2000 range, but I haven't bought any source gear in a while so I could splurge for one assuming the previous info was true.

[jp11801]

Yes the 301 is much more PnP but the lenco from my research needs

Lenco gl75 $500

PTP (Peter top plate) $375

Maybe a new idler assembly $140

Plinth $600

Bearing kit (ebay) $30

Total $1650 give or take

301

$2000 to $2500 for TT

Then $600 for plinth

Not a huge difference both the lenco and 301/401 tables I have heard have been stunning

[luvdunhill]

I have a bit of experience in this area, as I have a local friend with two different Garrard 301 setups. I've compared two different Lenco builds, both of which came in at about half the 301 costs. I guess I prefer the Lenco sound, and it seems to be about a 60/40 split with others in the area that have heard both, in slight preference to the Lenco. It's hard to really characterize the differences though, where when I compare to direct drive setups for example it's an obvious across the board improvement.

There are other areas to improve, that don't really see mainstream mention on the Lenco. I use a very sophisticated AC regeneration system that uses 3 phase power. I found this to be a very big improvement, as I don't have to worry about the quirks of varying the pulley diameter to do speed changes or even having to worry about European versus NA pulley diameters (perhaps pulley isn't the right word, it's the hourglass shaped metal piece that drives the idler).

In the end, getting something sooner than later might be a valid concern. However, I really like the Lenco approach in replacing the top plate and isolating the motor. This is why I feel that the design really surpasses the Garrard "replinth". The mods really transform the Lenco, where the transformation is perhaps less so with the Garrard.

[deepak]

Thanks Marc and jp. I suppose there is a strong desire simply for some change right now. The SL-1200 is a good work horse, but it is a clear bottleneck in my system.

"It's hard to really characterize the differences though, where when I compare to direct drive setups for example it's an obvious across the board improvement"

Marc is this a Technics SP10 Mk2/3?

[jp11801]

I do think some of the upper midrange DD tables like the 1200 or the sony ps-x6/7 can produce sound equal to or greater that tables in the $3k range new. I know that is a very broad statement but off the shelf i felt the sony equal to or greater than a VPI superscoutmaster. The sony and likely the technics have the same issues, semi crappy arm by todays standards, the sony has the tonearm wire soldered to a pad that acts as a cut off switch when the auto return is engaged (this cant be a positive. Neither suffered from what most people think are the weak point , motor noise.

At RMAF we heard a Technics sp10 rebuilt with a new fancy schmancy motor controller and it was nice but the Lenco rebuild has more snap and pace.

I have a Lenco L75 and a PTP coming. Not sure what to do for a plinth but I am considering taking a stab at a DIY (with help) Plywood plinth. If I can make the table work it will most likely be early January before its making music.

[diebenkorn]

Where is your Lenco? What is about the 1200 that is stopping your sonic nirvana? This discussion has been helpful for my turntable madness. I am going to try to take my 1210 as far as I can before looking into the lenco. Next step trans fi arm and AT 33ptg. Or Jelco or some other japanese arm and the same AT cartridge.

[deepak]

I am just speaking from comparing my 1200 to a couple of really nice Garrards. I'd rather mod a SP-10 than go further with the 1200. The SP-10 MK2 has a considerably better motor and platter, whereas the 1200 has a low inertia system so DJs can quickly start and stop the platter with their hands.

[DigiPete]

replace the arm on the 1200 and the power supply and you can get very good sound.

Go the next step and put in a Mike New bearing and platter and you have a top tier table for not a lot of money

[diebenkorn]

Luckily I bought my 1210 with Mike New bearing, thanks for the advice. Arm surgery is up next.

[luvdunhill]

replace the arm on the 1200 and the power supply and you can get very good sound.

Go the next step and put in a Mike New bearing and platter and you have a top tier table for not a lot of money

which other tables have you owned?

[diebenkorn]

One Pro-ject Debut. So this is my first real foray into the turntable world.

[postjack]

One Pro-ject Debut. So this is my first real foray into the turntable world.

how did you like the Debut? any brief comparisons to the 1200 you can share?

I don't need one but I'm always looking for budget turntables to recommend to friends.

[diebenkorn]

I bought it in 1998 (don't know if it is still the same model they sell today) and I wasn't really serious or edumicated about vinyl when I had it, so I can't really give you a fair description or comparison. I still have it (haven't heard it in 3 years) though it needs a new belt maybe I will hook it up for giggles and shits. I am now in the process of seeing if a bicycle inner tube some steel balls and hard marble can have a pleasurable effect on the technics.

[postjack]

I am now in the process of seeing if a bicycle inner tube some steel balls and hard marble can have a pleasurable effect

steeeeve!! where's Steve we need a joke stat!

[swt61]

It worked for Richard Gere!

[DigiPete]

see next post

[DigiPete]

which other tables have you owned?

none worth mentioning.

But I have heard an SME 10 setup with the Shelter Harmony and and SME IV.Vi arm in a nice system,

and fwiw my setup sounds just as good, and more to my liking than that setup.

I can say I have heard good improvements with each mod.

The folks over at The Art of Sound Forum have a lot of interest on 1200 mods and other tables

[diebenkorn]

Yeah it was the art of sound forum that gave the final push to go for the technics (a few months later I found about the lencos doh!) Probably redundant but anyways LENCO L 75 IDLER-DRIVE REFERENCE TURNTABLE

[deepak]

Yeah Arthur's review stirred up controversy and made Lenco prices shoot up as well. It is pretty impressive that he thought the Nantais L75 was better than his Forsell.

[DigiPete]

Yeah it was the art of sound forum that gave the final push to go for the technics (a few months later I found about the lencos doh!) Probably redundant but anyways LENCO L 75 IDLER-DRIVE REFERENCE TURNTABLE

I don't think you will be disappointed with your 1210. That website is interesting...

[MASantos]

So I am looking to buy a new turntable. I have been using my father's vinyl rig until now, but this brings me lots of constrains. He has a Rega P3 with RB300 arm and dynavector 10x5 cartridge. Phono Stage is an audio alchemy Vac-in-the-Box.

I like the sound of it quite a lot and would be happy with a similar system, probably with a better phono stage(DIY), however this would set me back at 1080€ (about 1400$) for the P3 (new P3-24 version) plus 10x5 cartridge.

While I have the money to buy this I have been thinking about getting a cheaper rig instead, something like a rega P1 or the pro ject debut III. These cost around 350€(500$) with cartridge included.(both have an orthofon OEM cartridge).

Phono stage for either choice would be a VSPS DIY or something similar for now, and a pearl or something tubed later.

I will eventually get something nicer in about 3-4 years, but need something until then. I will be listening to both rega TT's later this month but was looking for initial opinions, alternative choices, etc.

[postjack]

I'm no Rega expert (I've never listened to any Rega gear), but have you considered maybe buying a used Rega Planar 3 on audiogon? They run $400-500. Its an older model, but you still get the RB300 tonearm.

[deepak]

So I am looking to buy a new turntable. I have been using my father's vinyl rig until now, but this brings me lots of constrains. He has a Rega P3 with RB300 arm and dynavector 10x5 cartridge. Phono Stage is an audio alchemy Vac-in-the-Box.

I like the sound of it quite a lot and would be happy with a similar system, probably with a better phono stage(DIY), however this would set me back at 1080€ (about 1400$) for the P3 (new P3-24 version) plus 10x5 cartridge.

While I have the money to buy this I have been thinking about getting a cheaper rig instead, something like a rega P1 or the pro ject debut III. These cost around 350€(500$) with cartridge included.(both have an orthofon OEM cartridge).

Phono stage for either choice would be a VSPS DIY or something similar for now, and a pearl or something tubed later.

I will eventually get something nicer in about 3-4 years, but need something until then. I will be listening to both rega TT's later this month but was looking for initial opinions, alternative choices, etc.

With those cheaper Czech tables you will have to lift the platter and move the belt to switch between 33 and 45 rpm unless you buy a speed box which is an extra cost. In that price range I would get an SL-1200 if you plan to listen to lots of audiophile jazz reissues.

[MASantos]

I