WilCox Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 If the 404-LE cable is better than the standard 404/007 cable, should we take bets on how long it is before our beloved Icelandic loony puts it on his 007? Stax were obviously thinking future cable upgrades for the SR-Omega, odd that didn't carry over to the O2. Yep! Putting the upgraded cable on an O2 could cure that upper-midrange suckout and make them sound like a proper Lambda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I don't detect any upper mid suck out on the O2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilCox Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 I don't hear an upper mid suck out on the O2. After listening to the Lambda series for about 20 years and being accustomed to their, uh-hum, unique sound signature, the missing upper midrange peak in the O2 was very noticeable at first. So, while I have come to accept that the O2 may be the more neutral of the two, I have now learned to appreciate the strengths of each, and regularly use both, depending upon the music and source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 My SR-404 sounded like it had +10 dB (exaggeration ) from 3-6k KHz, so I understand if the O2 sounds off in comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 The LE1 is just the bastard child of an ESL57 and an iMac! Blasphemy!!!! My SR-404 sounded like it had +10 dB (exaggeration ) from 3-6k KHz, so I understand if the O2 sounds off in comparison Trust me, it was hard to go back to the SR-007 after the SR-404 modding exercise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggeh Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Blasphemy!!!! [ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catscratch Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Yep! Putting the upgraded cable on an O2 could cure that upper-midrange suckout and make them sound like a proper Lambda. They already did that. It's called the O2 Mk2, it's more Lambda-like, and I don't like it because of that. The O2 Mk1 is about as flat as I've ever heard a headphone sound. Now, there's nothing wrong with liking a more colored sound, but I hate that particular coloration, and the day Stax decided to put that coloration into their flagship headphone is the day they lost my respect. There are plenty of more pleasing and euphonic colorations to choose from if they actually wanted to pre-tune a headphone for easy listening, and if this wasn't simply shoddy quality control and lazy engineering. I hope they get their shit together, and there is some pressure from listeners and a few dealers who refuse to sell the Mk2, so I guess time till tell. All they need to do is to replace the coating or whatever it was that violated health codes on the Mk1, and put both that and the 717 back into production. Not exactly a whole lot of R&D money invested in that move, and there will be a significant sonic upgrade as a result. But if you like a peak in the upper mids, and more midbass besides, then check out the O2 Mk2. It's halfway between the Mk1 and the SR-404 in terms of sound signature. Complete with a more Lambda-like diffuse soundstage and slightly loose bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilCox Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 They already did that. It's called the O2 Mk2, it's more Lambda-like, and I don't like it because of that. The O2 Mk1 is about as flat as I've ever heard a headphone sound. Now, there's nothing wrong with liking a more colored sound, but I hate that particular coloration, and the day Stax decided to put that coloration into their flagship headphone is the day they lost my respect. There are plenty of more pleasing and euphonic colorations to choose from if they actually wanted to pre-tune a headphone for easy listening, and if this wasn't simply shoddy quality control and lazy engineering. I hope they get their shit together, and there is some pressure from listeners and a few dealers who refuse to sell the Mk2, so I guess time till tell. All they need to do is to replace the coating or whatever it was that violated health codes on the Mk1, and put both that and the 717 back into production. Not exactly a whole lot of R&D money invested in that move, and there will be a significant sonic upgrade as a result. But if you like a peak in the upper mids, and more midbass besides, then check out the O2 Mk2. It's halfway between the Mk1 and the SR-404 in terms of sound signature. Complete with a more Lambda-like diffuse soundstage and slightly loose bass. I was just kidding about making the O2 more Lambda-like. (Thus the ) I bought a used 717 and O2 Mk1 a few months ago and agree that it's the cat's meow! Progress doesn't always advance the state-of-the-art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catscratch Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Bah, me = sarcasm detection fail. Oh well, at least I got a rant in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Bah, me = sarcasm detection fail. Oh well, at least I got a rant in. And a nice rant it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 But if you like a peak in the upper mids, and more midbass besides, then check out the O2 Mk2. It's halfway between the Mk1 and the SR-404 in terms of sound signature. Complete with a more Lambda-like diffuse soundstage and slightly loose bass. C'mon, the O2Mk2 "halfway" between the Mk1 and SR-404?! That's like saying the HD600 is halfway between the HD650 and the K701. You Mk2-haters must be unable to listen to any headphone other than the Mk1, if you're so picky and the Mk2 sounds so off to you. The Mk2 sounds a lot closer to the Mk1 than any other headphone, including the SR-404 (disclosure: my unit is an Airbow SR-SC1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 The SR-SC1 and the SR-404 are quite far apart in terms of SQ. The Mk2/A is very similar to the SR-404 to my ears, especially in the midrange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I've heard a demo SR-404 at a store but never at the same time with the SR-SC1. Supposedly Airbow did some mods to it, including cryo. They are basically the same headphone, aren't they? How different can they be? Assessing the difference as quite far apart is to me an exaggeration, just like characterizing the O2Mk1 and O2Mk2 as being vastly different. I don't know how you guys are perceiving the O2Mk2 to be similar to the SR-404. That is completely not how I'm hearing the O2Mk2 vs. the O2Mk1, SR-SC1 and, based on admittedly fading memory, a demo SR-404 driven by a 006tII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 To my ears, side by side, the SC1 and 404 are very different headphones. The 404 is peaky and edgy while the SR-404 is more like the SR-Lambda and the Lambda Spirit/Pro Classic, very smooth though ultimately not impressive in the long run. They are both Lambdas so they fall within those parameters but the difference is clearly there even thought the phones are nearly identical. The LNS are also identical but sound nothing like either of those. The devil is in the details my friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faust3d Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 But LNS have a different driver with different diaphragm and I think they are as smooth as Stax phones in Lambda frame go. Is cable on LNS the same as on original Omega? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 The LNS has the same driver and cable as the 404 though the diaphragm is a bit different. The SR-Omega cable is dark brown and not like the SR-007 color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faust3d Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 The LNS has the same driver and cable as the 404 though the diaphragm is a bit different. The SR-Omega cable is dark brown and not like the SR-007 color. The color of the frame is different on LNS so the driver is technically the same but materials could be different, no? Except for the color LNS has the same cable as original Omega? Or is it different in other ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catscratch Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 You Mk2-haters must be unable to listen to any headphone other than the Mk1, if you're so picky and the Mk2 sounds so off to you. If that were the case, why do I still have the HD600? HD650? K340? 003? UM2, ES2, E500, W3, K1k, etc etc etc? Well, you could say "because I'm too lazy to ditch them" and you would at least partially be right. However, I can't listen to any headphone that has the same coloration in the midrange as the SR-404. I hated that coloration in the SR-404 and I'm reminded of it every time I listen to something similar. Midrange tonality is the most important thing to me in a headphone, and if you look at what I generally like, then you'll see a common trend in all of it: very good mids. The Mk2 and the Mk1 sounded like different headphones to my ears. Yes they had similarities, but the Mk1 is a lot closer to a balanced HD600 than it is to the Mk2 in terms of tonality. The Mk2's mids were way off. No matter how good it was in other respects - and it was very, very good in many respects - I could never like it for that reason alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 That midrange coloration (bass hump too) also does my head in and all their redeeming factors just disappear. I can tolerate many flaws in my headphones but only those where the headphone leaves something out and doesn't make up for it my adding some nonsense to the music, hence my preference of the HE60 over the HE90, SR-Lambda over the L-Pro's, SR-3 over the SR-3 New and it goes on and on. The color of the frame is different on LNS so the driver is technically the same but materials could be different, no? Except for the color LNS has the same cable as original Omega? Or is it different in other ways? A small change in how the diaphragm was tensioned is more then enough to account for these differences in sound. Other factors such as the glue used also apply but the tension is a large part of the sound. The Wide PC-OCC cable is always the same, despite the color. The new LE cable is the first advancement in that area in 16 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faust3d Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 A small change in how the diaphragm was tensioned is more then enough to account for these differences in sound. Other factors such as the glue used also apply but the tension is a large part of the sound. The Wide PC-OCC cable is always the same, despite the color. The new LE cable is the first advancement in that area in 16 years. Do you think the material of the driver frame (gold on LNS and Red on SR-404/303) is the same just different color? Tension is different probably and so is thickness. LNS driver Stax Sr-404 driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 The Mk2's mids were way off. That midrange coloration (bass hump too) also does my head in and all their redeeming factors just disappear. OK, if the beef is with the difference between the Mk2's and Mk1's midrange, then I can somewhat understand the dislike of the Mk2. I say 'somewhat' though, because to me whether I prefer the Mk1 or Mk2 at any moment can depend on the type of music or even the specific track being played. The more forward midrange of the Mk2 can make vocal's stand out more in some tracks, which can result in a more vivid or intimate type of experience. This is also the case with the O2's vs. the HE90 or SR-Omega, and depends mostly whether the track sounds better to me with the two latter headphones' larger soundstage and brighter sound. Also, most other headphones's midranges are more different from the O2Mk1 than the O2Mk2. The HE90 and SR-Omega, just two examples, have different midrange tonality that can make some female vocalists sound higher pitched in comparison to the O2Mk1 or O2Mk2. To me, dismissing the Mk2 so completely due to its midrange is like rejecting a beautiful, attractive, intelligent, good-hearted, understanding, compatible girl because her breasts aren't perfect compared to the "references" in certain adult publications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 LOL, well no, having a wrong midrange is more like discovering the "beautiful, attractive, intelligent, good-hearted, understanding, compatible girl" has a 10" dick under her pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 And the conversation took a sudden and unexpected turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPH Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 LOL, well no, having a wrong midrange is more like discovering the "beautiful, attractive, intelligent, good-hearted, understanding, compatible girl" has a 10" dick under her pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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