909 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Only 6SN7 tubes, nothing else in the MPX3. I've heard two or three 5687 SP slam amps--didn't really like that tube's signature. And I've probably heard some other SP tube combos, but didn't pay close attention to the tubes or listen long enough to comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granodemostasa Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 you might want to take a look at this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205744&highlight=mpx+slam+zana+deux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted July 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 you might want to take a look at this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205744&highlight=mpx+slam+zana+deux Good read thanks. The other option is getting an Extreme. But again I think I'd like to hear one with the L3000, as there are only a few owners with this combination. And not much info on how it is as a preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Keep in mind that is one of the more oddball of the SP MPX3s. It's a one of that was made several years ago, which really isn't indicative of most MPX3s and certainly not the SLAM SEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 you might want to take a look at this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205744&highlight=mpx+slam+zana+deux You guys kill me. First, the all 6sn7gt versions are old news and have been for two years. The newer gain and output tubes make the MPX3 sound decidely superior. Try a 6414/7062 etc driving 6bl7gta's and the difference is night and day. Try a 6gu7 driving 5687's same deal. Secondly, the MPX3 in the link was a much older model using 6cg7 tubes as the gain and output tube. That model had Paper-in-oil coupling caps and a solen stage 2 or 3 .... which is one of the only MPX3 versions I NEVER liked. That amp plain sounds to dark and muffled; I had a demo equipped like that. As far as I know that is the only amp optioned like that in existance and the amp in question is probably the demo I am talking about. I sent that guy some 6gu7's to help open the amp up some but he stopped posting on the board. In a pm he told me the 6gu7 definitely helped. But the point is you can still do much better with other tubes and the stock amp configuration. The Zana Deux does have a bright top end that may compliment the L3000 well. But I think the amp is to rough on top. The new Extreme does anything the Zana Deux can do for half the price. The amp just keeps scaling the more I experiment .... Extreme + 7062/6as7g + recabled/rescreened 580's = Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Keep in mind that is one of the more oddball of the SP MPX3s. It's a one of that was made several years ago, which really isn't indicative of most MPX3s and certainly not the SLAM SEs. Is that the MPX compared against the ZD on Head-Fi? One thing that must be addressed: the L3000s are extremely sensitive, which is both a blessing and a curse. The curse part any tube that's bad you'll hear it; any noise the transformer makes you'll hear it, dirty power, etc.... Most amps even solid states I can hear things when powered on without music playing and at normal listening levels w/ the L3000s. I can't explain why, but my amp is one of the quietest, if not the quiestest amp I've heard with the L3000s. The blessing you'll hear nuances and low level details, which most cans graze over. And bad or noise tubes and amps are easy to spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Is that the MPX compared against the ZD on Head-Fi? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted July 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 I've always been intrigued by the Extreme and nearly bought one back in January. But then I found a poweramp for my K1000, and my priorities shifted. The amp is definitely on my list to audition. Preferably somewhere where I can hear the different tube combos. Is that the MPX compared against the ZD on Head-Fi? One thing that must be addressed: the L3000s are extremely sensitive, which is both a blessing and a curse. The curse part any tube that's bad you'll hear it; any noise the transformer makes you'll hear it, dirty power, etc.... Most amps even solid states I can hear things when powered on without music playing and at normal listening levels w/ the L3000s. I can't explain why, but my amp is one of the quietest, if not the quiestest amp I've heard with the L3000s. The blessing you'll hear nuances and low level details, which most cans graze over. And bad or noise tubes and amps are easy to spot. The L3000s are very sensitive. A bit more sensitive than my HP-2. I knew one of my Amperex tubes was slightly microphonic but with no music playing it's slightly more obvious on the L3000. Small price to pay for a tube that sounds this good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Earl--you kill me You've not even heard a production ZD; have you? You've only heard Mike's old proto ZD, which doesn't have the better parts like the custom Moth paper and oil with film and soy bean oil output caps and other changes--(the sound is decidely superior ). Even Mikhail commented that the Extreme doesn't have the same detail as the MPX3 or possibly put another way slightly veiled in comparison. I can say with certainy the EC2A3 and even more so the ZD is closer to the music than the MPX3 I heard. I can't wait to hear an Extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Earl--you kill me You've not even heard a production ZD; have you? You've only heard Mike's old proto ZD, which doesn't have the better parts like the custom Moth paper and oil with film and soy bean oil output caps and other changes--(the sound is decidely superior ). Even Mikhail commented that the Extreme doesn't have the same detail as the MPX3 or possibly put another way slightly veiled in comparison. I can say with certainy the EC2A3 and even more so the ZD is closer to the music than the MPX3 I heard. I can't wait to hear an Extreme. Oh not so fast. The damper doides vs a 5u4g rectifier. Give me a 5u4g antime. If I am going with tube rectification I want a tube sound not a ss diode in a glass bottle. Paper-in-oil caps? I am not particularly impressed with that part either. A few upgraded parts have never made an amp sound decidely better in my experiences. In many cases the result was the opposite. I dont like the upgraded PIO caps in the SP amps .... and I hate the solen 2/3 upgrade. Mikhail had heard very few tube combos in the amp when he made that declaration. Now that I have had the Extreme and done some experimentation I would not say that was not true at all. The Extreme likes a much different setup than the MPX3. Having three MPX3's for comparison I dont see the Extreme lacking detail at all once you get the correct synergy with the right IC and gain / output tube combos. The Zana just doesnt impress me. There are to many amps that sound as good and offer more output power for far less money. The Extreme is exceptional + once you get the right synergy. But even beyond SP amps try a Sound Quest SQ-84 for $999. You get a sweet 10 watt 6V6GT integrated with a superb sounding headphone section that is as quiet as a tomb. The Space Tech Lab 6as7g transformer coupled amp will hang with a Zana for $920; especially with senn 580/600/650's. I have an Ear+ Super coming next week that should be close, or as good, with low impedence headphones .... for less than half the money. The pics below are my friends amp .... mine will be white with black side panels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peanuts Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Earl - is that MAD amp a production model or some custom job? I quickly browsed through the MAD site, but didn't see anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 A custom job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 A custom job. George is correct. But I would bet Lloyd would build more if asked. The amp will be shipping this week. The amp in the pic is my friends. I am 0204180. We both bought the Ear+ but I asked mine be specially cutomized. When my friend found out what I was doing he changed his amp order to the identical amp I asked for. Lloyd is building both amps simultaneously. Lloyd called this amp the Ear+ Super. What is super about this version? Well .... the amp will run the 12b4a tubes at a higher voltage and current bias for more power. The power supply uses a hybrid tube/ ss bridge rectifier with a 6x4 rectifier tube for smoothing. The amp will feature both high and low impedence headphone jacks.The input tube is the 12av7 in our amps. From my experiences with my Singlepower amps .... I much prefer the sound quality of the 12av7/5965/6414/6829 and especially the 7062 to the 12ax7 series. Plus, the 12av7 tubes are much less expensive and plentiful. My amp will be in the new white color with black sides. Both our amps use DH Labs best rca jacks hence only two sets of rca's. The size of the DH Labs rca's meant we could only fit two pair on the back panel. One is the input and the other is the passive preamp output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Oh not so fast. The damper doides vs a 5u4g rectifier. Give me a 5u4g antime. If I am going with tube rectification I want a tube sound not a ss diode in a glass bottle. I'll have to disagree with this part, though rectifier bottles are quieter & smoother sounding than solidstate diodes they can't match the goodness of TV damper diodes in my amp. The TV damper diodes are quieter & have a lower noise floor and the dynamics are also better. As far as I can tell they don't have a sound and that's the way I like it, if I want tubey fat tone I'll do it by using an RCA grey-glass 'SN7 in the amp circuit somewhere. The rectification should stay out of the way IMO, it's there to make quiet DC and get it to the rest of the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granodemostasa Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I don't know about that..... the extreme is great for what it does... but all sp amps i've tried so far are too tuby and un-transparent for my taste. maybe i'm not a real tube lover.... i just want tube/delicacy and texture with SS sound. whatever the case, the ZD isn't bad for it's price.... I clearly prefer it over the GS-X, despite the balanced factor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Oh not so fast... Exactly... You've NOT heard the production ZD and you avoid addressing that issue, repeatedly. Mikhail had heard very few tube combos in the amp when he made that declaration.Well, that's good. I hope when I hear the Extreme it synergizes with the rest of the system and has the best/right tubes. The Zana just doesnt impress me.Really, I couldn't tell. Yet before the ZD became a production amp you liked it. Remember or should I link your previous impressions when you compared the ZD favorably to the Supra. I've already heard your reason(s) as to why since you hear it differently now (or some other changes) as is usually the case. In the big picture we're splitting hairs since sources and headphones are more likely to make audible differences than comparing high-end tube amps. Everything is dependent upon the right system synergy and the listener's preferences because at this level it really comes down to subjectiveness. Yet in my experience and to my ear EC amps are a much better bang for the buck especially considering most don't order a base SP amp, they probably have the highest overhead of any headphone amp manufacturer and certainly that has to be worked into each SP amp price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Exactly... You've NOT heard the production ZD and you avoid addressing that issue, repeatedly. Well, that's good. I hope when I hear the Extreme it synergizes with the rest of the system and has the best/right tubes. Really, I couldn't tell. Yet before the ZD became a production amp you liked it. Remember or should I link your previous impressions when you compared the ZD favorably to the Supra. I've already heard your reason(s) as to why since you hear it differently now (or some other changes) as is usually the case. In the big picture we're splitting hairs since sources and headphones are more likely to make audible differences than comparing high-end tube amps. Everything is dependent upon the right system synergy and the listener's preferences because at this level it really comes down to subjectiveness. Yet in my experience and to my ear EC amps are a much better bang for the buck especially considering most don't order a base SP amp, they probably have the highest overhead of any headphone amp manufacturer and certainly that has to be worked into each SP amp price. I am not avoiding the "issue" at all. There are no new Zana's for me to hear in my area and I am not going to spend $2k on an amp I dont believe will transcend the performance of my $1k amps. I did like the amp originally until I got some time with the Zana and understood the amps failings .... and I have made that clear to you repeatedly. Better bang for the buck .... come on. The SP amps dont need any upgrades to sound good save good tubes. The $999 Extreme sounds as good as any amp out there and the Extreme has twice the power and is only half the cost of the Zana. Furthermore, even purchasing an adapter for $99 will save you money in the end. I can definitely tube an Extreme less expensively than I could a Zana over the life of the amps .... even with an adapter factored in. That people choose to buy upgrades they dont really need is on them not the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I dont believe will transcend the performance of my $1k amps. I did like the amp originally until I got some time with the Zana and understood the amps failings You are repeatedly speculating about what you believe you will hear and commenting authoritatively about something you have NOT even heard. The perceived failings you stated you heard were with the K701s (right) that you subsequently sold. I've rarely seen a stock SP amp in the for sale forum, most, if not all have those pricey upgrades. Admit it Earl, Mikhail gives you preferential treatment. The ZD has more options than just a stock headphone amp like the base Extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asebastian0 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The ZD is very nice with the L3000, I own both. I don't have a secondary amp right now for comparison. Like someone already said the ZD complements the signature of the L3000, in fact I wondered for a while how people could describe the treble of the L3k as "rolled-off." Both extremes are extended, detailed/articulate with the ZD. I would steer clear of tube amps known for euphony and smooth treble if you are planning on using the L3k as your main headphone, would probably be too similar causing un-synergy... don't know what else to call it. I am thinking that a good solid-state amp would be best for them. Alas, I do not have one to test this assumption at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I am thinking that a good solid-state amp would be best for them. Alas, I do not have one to test this assumption at the moment. I heard the L3000s with a dynahi a few days ago. It was a big surprise to me especially because I really liked that amp so much. The dynahi paired with the L3000s offered less bass, impact, and almost neutral presentation compared to my EC2A3 w/ the L3000s. I easily preferred the L3000s with my tube amp over the dynahi, which wasn't so clear cut with the HD650s since each amp did certain things slightly better and different than the other with the Senns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 You are repeatedly speculating about what you believe you will hear and commenting authoritatively about something you have NOT even heard. The perceived failings you stated you heard were with the K701s (right) that you subsequently sold. I've rarely seen a stock SP amp in the for sale forum, most, if not all have those pricey upgrades. Admit it Earl, Mikhail gives you preferential treatment. The ZD has more options than just a stock headphone amp like the base Extreme. AFAIK, Earl is one of the slowest people to get his amps (in some cases a year + on certain amps). That is not preferential treatment at all. While the Zana Deux may have more inputs and outputs, the Extreme can have those added easily. The cheaper tube compliment has already been mentioned, but if you didn't see it, here it is again. With a tube amp, that's definitely a plus. And last I checked, the posted price of the Zana Deux doesn't even have the full compliment of tubes to run the amp. You still need to buy a 6SL7 and the 2 6c33s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Didn't Earl receive his Extremes well before many others and then he got the second one he ordered after Mikhail received the onslaught of Extreme orders within a week or so whereas the regular folks just had to wait weeks, months and god knows how long for their Extreme. I know one guy that waited like four months and I'm sure he's not the only one. ZD is also a pre-amp. Have you even heard a stock Extreme? \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humanflyz Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 LOL, yet another SP vs. EC pissing contest. Anyways, SP amps might sound like heaven, but I am not down with waiting for them for that long. I emailed Craig earlier tonight asking about the Odin, he said that he's focusing on the EC-84 right now, a 5wpc speaker/headphone amp that's targeted at 900 dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dusty, are you going to be at the VA/MD meet next weekend? Unless something comes up, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 It sounds really good out of my Melos (I encourage you to hear this combo), but more powerful output tubes might open up the soundstage more. Thanks. I know two people with Meloses, I'll make sure that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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