Commotion Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Ancient Dac, but has anyone heard one of these? How does it compare to the Parasound D/AC-1600 I have? Supposedly the 2000 was touted as being a noticeable step up and was much more expensive (I think 2x the price) at the time. I see them come up a few times a year on ebay and was wondering if they're worth the 600-800 dollars they normally go for. I'm a huge Parasound fanboy and have wanted one for a while. Anyone ever hear one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherwood Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 A link to the welcome thread is always, err, welcome, but this is a fair topic. We do love the Parasound gear here. I've not heard the 2000, unfortunately, but the 1600 is a fantastic DAC. I imagine a few folks here have heard both, though with the constant development in digital tech I wonder whether decade old statement products still hold the appeal they once did. The Parasound is no longer the last word in resolution, it is just a really enjoyable piece of gear. Is the 2000 that much more enjoyable, for being a more concentrated flavor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Sneis Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) I currently have a d/ac 2000 which I paid way too much for. It's a pretty good dac all said and done. There's not a lot of info out there, at least not that I could find. Some will say the 1600/1100 were actually better than the 2000 but I don't know one way or another what is the truth. I have owned the 1100/1600/1500/2000 in that order and not at the same time. I loved the 1100 which I picked up for a fair price and am content with the 2000 today. I regret selling all of them and today's "market value" on ebay is the craziest thing I have ever seen. I don't recommend playing that game because it inflates the prices for no good reason. I snagged this d/ac 2000 because I was somewhat desperate to hear it and paid dearly. For the money, there's better out there for sure. Edited August 19, 2013 by Mr.Sneis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessingx Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) I had a few at the same time. Never A/Bed the 1600 and 2000, but if there was a SQ difference it wasn't great enough to be obvious. What was obvious was the 1600 is a lot heavier = better. Never should have sold them. Edited August 19, 2013 by blessingx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mypasswordis Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 ^ Dat stack(s). I still have (well, sort of) my 1100 and it still sounds good. Black Gate Magicks are not to be trifled with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I'd recommend buying the Parasound ZDAC before spending more on a used 2000. I like the ZDAC at least as much as my old 1600, and it's new (likely to last longer), as well as the addition of a USB input. Smaller is not always less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwzhan Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I love my 1600, but the power switch seems to only control the input and output selector but not the circuit itself. The output stage runs warm and I'm always worried about the caps inside. Do you guys just leave it on or do you unplug the power cord when not in use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mypasswordis Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I'd recommend buying the Parasound ZDAC before spending more on a used 2000. I like the ZDAC at least as much as my old 1600, and it's new (likely to last longer), as well as the addition of a USB input. Smaller is not always less. Awesome, good to know. I love my 1600, but the power switch seems to only control the input and output selector but not the circuit itself. The output stage runs warm and I'm always worried about the caps inside. Do you guys just leave it on or do you unplug the power cord when not in use? I unplug. I also almost never listen to it (or anything) so there's that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Smaller is not always less. I feel like I don't even know you anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I think you meant, "Dat DAC stack", Justin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commotion Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Wow, way more info than I expected, thanks. I know I jumped right into the fray, but I've been reading this forum since it opened... just never posted. Plus, I must have fallen out of and jumped back into the headphone game at least 10 times now. I took a detour with speakers and still enjoy them way more than headphones, but now that I have more neighbors I'm trying not to be a dick all the time by blasting my music. I really like the Parasound DAC. I've also owned the Parasound CDP-2000 CD player that's supposed to be similar to the DAC-2000 and I thought the 1600 was slightly better overall. The CDP-2000 was more polished and easier to listen to but not as fun, not to mention the whole CD thing is 100 times more cumbersome than turning on my Squeezebox. The only thing I can think of that might be wrong with it is I find it a little too aggressive at times, and like Sherwood said it's not the end-all when it comes to resolution, but it's still better than most things I've listened to it. And all it's other traits more than make up for that. I think I'm going to abstain for now and hope I get lucky and steal it from someone who hasn't researched the completed listing on ebay beforehand. Doubt that'll happen anytime soon though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mypasswordis Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I think you meant, "Dat DAC stack", Justin. Wow, way more info than I expected, thanks. I know I jumped right into the fray, but I've been reading this forum since it opened... just never posted. Plus, I must have fallen out of and jumped back into the headphone game at least 10 times now. I took a detour with speakers and still enjoy them way more than headphones, but now that I have more neighbors I'm trying not to be a dick all the time by blasting my music. I really like the Parasound DAC. I've also owned the Parasound CDP-2000 CD player that's supposed to be similar to the DAC-2000 and I thought the 1600 was slightly better overall. The CDP-2000 was more polished and easier to listen to but not as fun, not to mention the whole CD thing is 100 times more cumbersome than turning on my Squeezebox. The only thing I can think of that might be wrong with it is I find it a little too aggressive at times, and like Sherwood said it's not the end-all when it comes to resolution, but it's still better than most things I've listened to it. And all it's other traits more than make up for that. I think I'm going to abstain for now and hope I get lucky and steal it from someone who hasn't researched the completed listing on ebay beforehand. Doubt that'll happen anytime soon though Or you could just steal a brand new ZDAC for the suggested retail price of $475. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessingx Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 ...or keep on eye on Audio Advisor. They tend to end up with B-stock Z components. Picked up a Zphono for $109. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I feel like I don't even know you anymore. Dear God, you're right! What the hell am I saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I thought I wouldn't live to see the day when Steve admitted that performance matters more than size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commotion Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Or you could just steal a brand new ZDAC for the suggested retail price of $475. Hmm, I'm considering it. The problem is I don't know if it's going to be worthwhile upgrade over the 1600, and if not it's going to be waste of time and money (not a lot, but still more than I care to). I was hoping to upgrade to something clearly better. Plus, the DAC-1600 has more coolness factor being rare and everything. And I know it's stupid, but I have some irrational preference to Parasound things designed by John Curl. I also have one of his speaker amps that I really like. On the downside, my DAC-1600 is at least 15 years old and I can't imagine at least some of the electronics didn't deteriorate yet. Has anyone else compared the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessingx Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Apologies if this is widely known, but did John Curl design the 1600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commotion Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Actually, my whole point was for moot since I don't think he did design it. I've had so much of his gear that I just automatically assumed it was him since the DAC is from the same era as the other stuff. Stupid me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commotion Posted August 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 Just bought some HE-500's... going to see if these headphones show the limitations of this DAC. Anyone think a Gilmore Lite w/DPS will be a bottleneck in between those two? Going to get something better eventually, but probably not anytime soon unless the synergy is obviously terrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherwood Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 Going to get something better eventually S'alright, you don't have anything to prove here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commotion Posted August 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 I'd say it's more my inability to stay satisfied with anything ever Sadly, I listen to my gear instead of the music more often than not. Sometimes I break away from that but not for long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeWolf Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 This is a tad offtopic, but what isn't these days... Anyways - I've been tinkering inside a 1600 and I've come to a conclusion that ultimately it is a strange design. I got it after the Pico DAC and was pleasantly surprised with the sound as I felt that Pico sounded too lean on my system (Dynalo->HD650). After a while I realized that due to the MOSFET output buffer the sound is actually heavily colored with second order harmonics. The IV stage implementation itself is taken from the PCM63 datasheet and is pretty good. What really bothers me is the space heater after the IV stage. In my humble opinion the buffer shoots the DAC in the leg. For a while I listened with the buffer bypassed and after that I dremeled out the mosfet circuit. I made a different buffer based on the OPA134/BUF634 composite circuit with the 634 being in the feedback loop of the 134. I believe what I had achieved was a night/day difference. At last until for some reason the whole circuit decided to oscillate itself to death. So yeah... If anyone needs 4 PCM63K's and a PMD100, shoot me a message. Sorry for wrecking your DAC, Currawong. The experience was worth it, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commotion Posted August 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 That's crazy I don't think the 1600 is anything near perfect, even without knowing what perfect is by source component standards. It just does a lot of stuff right. The mid-range and bass is a little too prominent on it, almost to the point of being vulgar. I haven't listened to any piece of gear yet that puts the mids so much in the forefront. Sometimes I listen to crappier sources that are obviously not as good, but it's a nice break from the 1600 because they aren't anywhere near in your face. By the way, I replaced my "K" PCM63's to "KY" that I bought from someone on ebay a long time ago who supposedly pulled them out of a Yamaha component. After selling the "K's" it was only like a $40 difference. Supposedly it's a higher grade and I seem to remember noticing a difference, but because I couldn't AB them for obvious reasons it's hard to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 I had a short A/B between my DAC-2000 and a marantz SA-11, and I think it held its own. The DAC-2000 lost the shootout 2 to 1 but there really wasn't much between the two. Having said that, if I were to spend $600-800 on a new DAC, I'd probably spend it on something else. Maybe an audio-gd thingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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