There's something wrong in Colorado...

[Currawong]

Reading those emails from Mikhail, they raise so many red flags with me it's not funny. If I was receiving BS from someone I was buying gear from like that, I'd be wanting him checked out for bad gambling or drug habits, I kid you not. Moving people around the queue, asking extra money, changing agreements about payment...no no and no. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200, go directly to Jail.

One of my best friends, who ran a second-hand computer business, turned out to be a smack addict (naivety is great until someone points out what everyone else figured out ages ago). He was so all over the place with running the business that the motivations behind his random desperate needs for selling off computers quickly to get cash suddenly made painful sense, hence my comment above.

On moderation: I run a forum 1/3rd the size of Head-fi, and it's bloody hard to moderate consistently and not let personal biases enter into it.

[n_maher]

The only way I'd pay Mikhail right now is via a CC so you could do a charge back if issues arose.

[Salt Peanuts]

Dan here's to hoping that you get your amp and it is what you expected. I hate to say it but at this point you should be keeping all options open and start to begin to exercise them like a complaint to the Colorado Better Business Bureau for starters. I like the guy in person but this theory that he can add additional shit to a repair job and them expect the customer to pay the bill when it was never approved is insane.

Seconded. There're also some stuff from FTC that most likely applies here as well. I still have it (FTC info) bookmarked on my desktop from when I had a reason to use it. Let me know if you want the info.

[kevin gilmore]

Don't think that a credit card is a catchall for stuff like this.

I know a person in a business similar to mikhail's (as in retail product)

and he gets chargebacks all the time. And he spends the time to prove

that he shipped the product (always ships signature required) and 95%

of the time, the chargebacks are canceled. The credit card companies

want to make sure their vendors are kept happy, otherwise no one would

accept credit cards.

[n_maher]

Certainly not a catch-all Kevin, but it'd sure be nice to at least have the option if Mikhail once again decides to play loose with shipping deadlines or sends a defective product.

[tyrion]

I might as well set the record straight on why I'm not posting at HF anymore, since the last post I made there really wasn't in-depth at all as to my motivations. I saw 3 posts in a certain thread get deleted that were perfectly legitimate and had no other reason to be deleted than from overzealousness by a moderator (I don't know which moderator but it's not relevant) for the probable reason of protecting the RSA brand from hard questions. I was also one of the people who saw the thread disappear from the Amps forums and then later re-emerge. Those moderating and admin decisions (because Jude later admitted himself that the thread was moved) showed me without a doubt the corrupt system on HF - I'd had suspicions before but this time I saw them actually happen. I did not want to continue contributing posts to a site that I saw was corrupt. There is absolutely no reason to delete posts like the ones I saw and no reason to move a thread to a hidden area for pruning on any forum - I understand HF is a private forum but that doesn't make it any less of a cloak & dagger attempt of hiding what's going on. There's no other way to put it, HF is a corrupt system run by the whims of Jude and a few sniveling moderators that do his bidding, and the way he PMs people who commit offenses against him or the site (as far as he's concerned) is also despicable - as if he has the right to control the opinions of others and what they can and cannot post. I'm not going to mince my words here, and I don't care if he reads this either, or whoever else reads it. There's no way I'm ever again supporting anything that has to do with HF....

...which actually has an extended implication I just realized yesterday, which is too bad but I guess that's how it'll have to be. Not really into gear much anymore anyway, so not much of a loss.

The only sniveling is coming out of your computer. Do you really believe anyone cares whether you post or not. Trust me, you ain't that important or impressive. It's times like this that I would hope you would take the same approach here and leave.

So I am a sniveling moderator that does Judes bidding. Are you fucking kidding me. Perhaps you should reconsider posting bullshit like this unless you have proof of this conspiracy that I am apparently apart of. It just don't exist except in your own mind. And as far as your corruption allegations go, show me the proof. You really should be careful what you say about others on the internet because one day you will say the wrong thing about the wrong person and it will come back to bite you in the ass.

By the way, Jude owns the site and therefore gets to control what gets said on the site. You think HF is bad, try it on Steve Hoffman's site. Your post gets deleted and you never get an explanation as to why. As far as you supporting HF, who cares, you are no one, really, no one. It's probably time you realize that and get over yourself already.

[Jeepster]

Isnt there a difference between Jude controlling the site and Jude letting the moderators run amuck and never lifting a finger when a moderator goes at someone like a pit viper? You seem to be as mad as someone can get, do you really take things on the forum that personal? Do you really enjoy being a moderator or has it become a pain in the ass?

[Sherwood]

You seem to be as mad as someone can get,

Seriously, Mike, I never thought ASR was calling you out, he was just really upset about moderation at HF. I'll agree that "sniveling" was inappropriate, even if I don't imagine he intended you when he said it. We all know moderation happens in the way he described -- not being a moderator himself what kind of "proof" would you have him provide? I've seen threads moved and posts deleted, I just don't really care.

Your threats ("You really should be careful what you say about others on the internet because one day you will say the wrong thing about the wrong person and it will come back to bite you in the ass") seem a little out of line, considering.

[foo_me]

Keep at it Dan, at least you seem to be making some progress with Mikhail. I'm sure you'll get things sorted out. And when you have your stuff, I agree you should just wash your hands of the situation. It's not worth dealing with Mikhail (I have some personal experience I could add to this thread that came from co-organizing the Colorado July meet, but won't, since it's not really related to the purpose of this thread).

I might as well set the record straight on why I'm not posting at HF anymore, since the last post I made there really wasn't in-depth at all as to my motivations. I saw 3 posts in a certain thread get deleted that were perfectly legitimate and had no other reason to be deleted than from overzealousness by a moderator (I don't know which moderator but it's not relevant) for the probable reason of protecting the RSA brand from hard questions. I was also one of the people who saw the thread disappear from the Amps forums and then later re-emerge. Those moderating and admin decisions (because Jude later admitted himself that the thread was moved) showed me without a doubt the corrupt system on HF - I'd had suspicions before but this time I saw them actually happen. I did not want to continue contributing posts to a site that I saw was corrupt. There is absolutely no reason to delete posts like the ones I saw and no reason to move a thread to a hidden area for pruning on any forum - I understand HF is a private forum but that doesn't make it any less of a cloak & dagger attempt of hiding what's going on. There's no other way to put it, HF is a corrupt system run by the whims of Jude and a few sniveling moderators that do his bidding, and the way he PMs people who commit offenses against him or the site (as far as he's concerned) is also despicable - as if he has the right to control the opinions of others and what they can and cannot post. I'm not going to mince my words here, and I don't care if he reads this either, or whoever else reads it. There's no way I'm ever again supporting anything that has to do with HF....

...which actually has an extended implication I just realized yesterday, which is too bad but I guess that's how it'll have to be. Not really into gear much anymore anyway, so not much of a loss.

if you're going post something about corruption, you should definitely provide proof and your explanation doesn't show any.

Posts got deleted and I'm sure they can when a thread/site is modded...it's not a democracy and for a moderated site, don't understand why you expect it to be.

I think it's actually a positive that Jude explains it when he deletes posts...at least he gives his reasoning...it's his site and his rules.

You can take it or leave it which you've obviously done, but to get pissed off like this and to call people corrupt and sniveling and condemning all of HF like that, it sounds more like whining than anything else...it was a few posts from the over the many hundreds that you posted after all...

[tyrion]

Isnt there a difference between Jude controlling the site and Jude letting the moderators run amuck and never lifting a finger when a moderator goes at someone like a pit viper? You seem to be as mad as someone can get, do you really take things on the forum that personal? Do you really enjoy being a moderator or has it become a pain in the ass?

I don't know, is there a difference? Sometimes moderators need to be aggressive because those we are moderating are aggressive. I'm made when someone calls me, a mod on HF, sniveling and corrupt. His statements were sweeping generalizations that have no basis in fact. Being a moderator has always been a pain in the ass. It's part of the job. Sometimes you make calls that are wrong and more of the times you don't. Not everyone is going to agree with every decision you make. That's just the way it is. I'm not perfect, far from it. The same applies to the other moderators. As I've always said, you don't like it leave. I could care less whether you or ASR or anyone else for that matter left HF.

Seriously, Mike, I never thought ASR was calling you out, he was just really upset about moderation at HF. I'll agree that "sniveling" was inappropriate, even if I don't imagine he intended you when he said it. We all know moderation happens in the way he described -- not being a moderator himself what kind of "proof" would you have him provide? I've seen threads moved and posts deleted, I just don't really care.

Your threats ("You really should be careful what you say about others on the internet because one day you will say the wrong thing about the wrong person and it will come back to bite you in the ass") seem a little out of line, considering.

Sorry, but I didn't see how he excluded me in his post. Even had he, his sweeping generalizations are unfounded. You agree that sniveling was inappropriate, what about corrupt? Those are the terms I addressed. If he is unable to get proof, then perhaps he should keep his mouth shut and not accuse people as he did.

[Sherwood]

Sorry, but I didn't see how he excluded me in his post. Even had he, his sweeping generalizations are unfounded. You agree that sniveling was inappropriate, what about corrupt? Those are the terms I addressed. If he is unable to get proof, then perhaps he should keep his mouth shut and not accuse people as he did.

That's reasonable. As an outsider, I didn't see how he included you, but I can see how exclusion would be more important from your perspective. Corrupt is also a pretty big word to be throwing around, and while I stand by my question of "what proof could he present", I also agree that corruption is a serious charge to level.

[Jeepster]

Im not trying to piss you off, Im just asking is it really worth all that anger? Personally I think Xanax should be in the American water supply.

[tyrion]

That's reasonable. As an outsider, I didn't see how he included you, but I can see how exclusion would be more important from your perspective. Corrupt is also a pretty big word to be throwing around, and while I stand by my question of "what proof could he present", I also agree that corruption is a serious charge to level.

I'm not sure I expect anyone to have the same feelings about this that I do.

Im not trying to piss you off, Im just asking is it really worth all that anger? Personally I think Xanax should be in the American water supply.

I'm a pretty calm guy almost always unless someone pisses me off (not referring to you).

[morphsci]

Can't we all just get along?

[Genetic]

There's no ''sweeping generalizations'' that can stand about HF mod staff.

Some are realy acting like gentlemen even if they are in a loosing position. When was the last time you saw crowds cheering for the umpire...

Even with many bad calls I'm pretty sure the good ones are the norm. Unfortunately there's no way to eliminate the source of those bad calls since we wont find a way to determine with exactitude what constitute a bad call and prevent it from happening. That's simply life.

Back on topic. I hope our Colorado builder will, in 2009, find a way to put an end to these threads and change his way of doing business before he become another LaRocco Audio....

Amicalement

[Asr]

The only sniveling is coming out of your computer. Do you really believe anyone cares whether you post or not. Trust me, you ain't that important or impressive. It's times like this that I would hope you would take the same approach here and leave.

I already know no one cares whether I post there or not, but no one apart from me knows knows why I stopped posting there, and the idea that it was from "moderating at HF" is incomplete and I just wanted to correct that, for informational purposes only. And it was a personal stance I took btw - not for "grandstanding" or to gain importance or anything like that. Anyone who saw more than that saw more than what I was taking my personal stance for.

So I am a sniveling moderator that does Judes bidding. Are you fucking kidding me. Perhaps you should reconsider posting bullshit like this unless you have proof of this conspiracy that I am apparently apart of. It just don't exist except in your own mind. And as far as your corruption allegations go, show me the proof. You really should be careful what you say about others on the internet because one day you will say the wrong thing about the wrong person and it will come back to bite you in the ass.

I wrote "a few sniveling moderators" - not "all", and you weren't included, I didn't say you specifically were part of it. If you want me to specify the ones I think that are, they'd be elrod-tom, Zanth, and vcoheda. I don't have saved proof but I've seen enough to convince me that those moderators do Jude's bidding exactly, and elrod-tom and vcoheda fall under the "sniveling" group based on what I've seen from them. Some of their posts are still in the thread that we all know I'm referencing. I don't believe for a second the thread was accidentally deleted as Zanth and later Jude stated. It's a poor excuse, and even if it was, an accidental deletion is something that's noticed immediately especially with VBulletin - Zanth or another moderator could have restored the thread within minutes to a few hours, instead that thread stayed off the Amps forum overnight.

As for a so-called "conspiracy," one would have to be practically blind to not see that there are moderators on HF who protect the RSA brand by moderating posts that question the brand. There's no conspiracy, it happens pretty frequently and anyone can see it, and there's no logical reason for it other than brand loyalty (or further "conspiracies").

[tyrion]

I already know no one cares whether I post there or not, but no one apart from me knows knows why I stopped posting there, and the idea that it was from "moderating at HF" is incomplete and I just wanted to correct that, for informational purposes only. And it was a personal stance I took btw - not for "grandstanding" or to gain importance or anything like that. Anyone who saw more than that saw more than what I was taking my personal stance for.

I wrote "a few sniveling moderators" - not "all", and you weren't included, I didn't say you specifically were part of it. If you want me to specify the ones I think that are, they'd be elrod-tom, Zanth, and vcoheda. I don't have saved proof but I've seen enough to convince me that those moderators do Jude's bidding exactly, and elrod-tom and vcoheda fall under the "sniveling" group based on what I've seen from them. Some of their posts are still in the thread that we all know I'm referencing. I don't believe for a second the thread was accidentally deleted as Zanth and later Jude stated. It's a poor excuse, and even if it was, an accidental deletion is something that's noticed immediately especially with VBulletin - Zanth or another moderator could have restored the thread within minutes to a few hours, instead that thread stayed off the Amps forum overnight.

As for a so-called "conspiracy," one would have to be practically blind to not see that there are moderators on HF who protect the RSA brand by moderating posts that question the brand. There's no conspiracy, it happens pretty frequently and anyone can see it, and there's no logical reason for it other than brand loyalty (or further "conspiracies").

If you didn't mean to include all mods then you really should be clear knowing that I'm going to read your post. Vcoheda isn't a mod at present as far as I know. If Jude and/or Zanth said it was an accident then it was. They don't lie in my experience and I wouldn't defend them if I thought they did. I've taken down thread to prune and not gotten them back up quickly simply because I didn't have the time to get to it. This RSA protection stuff is such nonsense. If it's going on it is done in secret in a forum I can't access. I've moderated posts that have protected brands other than RSA not because I was trying to help those brands but becasue the posts were inappropriate for other reasons. You can interpret the actions of others any way you want but you are wrong about this.

[Dusty Chalk]

Sorry, Mike, but I side with ASR on this -- others have made similar allegations against Jude & Co. without explicitly excluding you (and we have to make generalizations about the moderators, because we don't know which ones are the problems, and which ones are not -- we only have your word that you're not part of the problem), and have not received the ire I see coming from you this time.

[grawk]

I'd write it off as human nature combined with incompetence, rather than directed action.

[tyrion]

Sorry, Mike, but I side with ASR on this -- others have made similar allegations against Jude & Co. without explicitly excluding you (and we have to make generalizations about the moderators, because we don't know which ones are the problems, and which ones are not -- we only have your word that you're not part of the problem), and have not received the ire I see coming from you this time.

Really, you've never seen me get pissed about this stuff before. I'm pretty sure I have Peter. Not important to me who sides with ASR, it doesn't make it right. If by now you think I would lie about this shit then I'm never going to convince you and would not bother to try.

I'd write it off as human nature combined with incompetence, rather than directed action.

A far more reasonable explanation.

[Dusty Chalk]

Really, you've never seen me get pissed about this stuff before. I'm pretty sure I have Peter.

I didn't say that, I said the converse. I have seen you get pissed off at this sort of thing before -- but that just says that sometimes you're too thin-skinned to be a mod, perhaps. I've also seen you not get this pissed off at far worse, that was my point.

And I deliberately did not introduce my feelings on the matter, as they are irrelevant. I was just pointing out that this is all speculation -- whether positive or negative -- since we have no behind-the-scenes information, only hearsay.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Dusty Chalk

[tyrion]

I didn't say that, I said the converse. I have seen you get pissed off at this sort of thing before -- but that just says that sometimes you're too thin-skinned to be a mod, sometimes. I've also seen you not get this pissed off at far worse, that was my point.

And I deliberately did not introduce my feelings on the matter, as they are irrelevant. I was just pointing out that this is all speculation -- whether positive or negative -- since we have no behind-the-scenes information, only hearsay.

Technically, I don't believe it would be hearsay, it is my word on what I believe is the case. Hearsay would be an out of court statement offered for the truth of the matter asserted or something like that.

[Dusty Chalk]

This isn't a court case, I meant "hearsay" as "something we've heard second-hand from someone else, rather than as first-hand experience". In other words, none of us have access to what goes on behind the scenes there, only what's told to us by you and Jude and the other mods, occasionally, obliquely, and vaguely (you less so than the others). You seem to want to imply from that that I assume you're lying, but that's not the case at all -- I allow for the possibility that you're lying, that's all. There's no proof to the contrary, and if someone were to swing the other way -- I.E. that it's a conspiracy and that you're lying -- I wouldn't be able to fault them or argue with them on that. There's just as much proof either way (I.E. none).

Statements like "I'd write it off..." are still conclusions based on what information we have on hand, but just because one of us drew that conclusion, doesn't mean it's right.

It's like that whole "science vs. faith" discussion -- a good scientist allows for the possibility that he is wrong, that's all. Sure, he can spend a lot of energy and effort trying to convince people to his way of thinking, but it's folly to dismiss someone just because they don't.

[grawk]

Look at it this way: Why would jude insist on protecting RSA over all others? What benefit would he get? I'm fairly sure that one or two of the mods protect rsa, just as some protect other builders, but not as a conspiracy. They're just more aware of attacks on rsa than others because that's what they've paid attention to.

As to why it matters, I'm not sure. There are lots of things in the world worth getting worked up over. RSA amplifiers aren't on that list for me.

[tyrion]

I certainly could be wrong and their is a conspiracy of which I am not a part and his hidden from me. Quite frankly, at this point, I'm not sure why I even care anymore.