Audeze LCD-2

[fishski13]

i'm gonna dubstep all over your little bitch asses.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I've complained on the other forum about excess fatigue when listening to the LCD-2 in my bedroom rig. Well, my Nuforce CDP-8 seems to be a much better source to use with my LCD-2 than the Apogee mini-DAC I've been using.

The LCD-2 with WA6 (and several other amps) was fairly fatiguing, with piercing pianos plus some frequencies resonating in my ears. Skylab had reported the WA6 to be a great match for the LCD-2, but it wasn't for me. But they are now much less fatiguing and more refined with a simple change in source. With the CDP-8 there is a more natural and flowing character to the music now, without some artificial sounding echoing going on in the lower mids or graininess in the highs. Since I've owned the Apogee I've found it to be slightly on the aggressive side vs other DAC's like the Stello DA100 or Digital Link III, but usually it's not a problem as long as I use the Sigma 11 PSU. In previous comparisons I've felt the Apogee to be slightly more detailed, but with slightly more grain in return. There is a reason there is a team "source first" out there, and now that I'm used to the PWD the Apogee might not be cutting it any more.

Then I moved down to my basement rig with PWD > ZDT amp, and this rig is noticeably superior with the LCD-2 than any of the other source/amps that I've tried before. The LCD-2 now sound closer to what the other guys at HF are raving about, however I think the ZDT > LCD-2 is still darker and less transparent sounding than my WES > O2 Mk1 (PWD feeding both amps). There is a definite similarity, especially in soundstage and imaging, and I would say the LCD-2 are the closest I've heard to a dynamic or "non-stat" version of the O2 Mk1 (at least in my rigs). But, the LCD-2's recessed mids and treble hide some of the details and air in comparison to the O2 Mk1. This comparison has increased my respect for the O2 Mk1, but also made me appreciate the LCD-2 more for what they can do. They have nice detailed bass that isn't bloated or lacking, a warm tone with a full presence and weight to the instruments, mildly recessed mids and treble with good speed and detail, but lacking a bit in sparkle and air in the highs.

The HE-5 LE also scale up nicely with the PWD > ZDT, but the presentation is definitely different between these phones. The HE-5 LE is a more forward, intimate and delicate sounding headphone than LCD-2; and the LCD-2 is a darker, warmer and more recessed sounding phone with a bigger soundstage. The HE-5 LE sound more like a faster, more detailed/less veiled version of an HD600 (and not as airy, detailed and spacious as my HE60). I really liked both orthos in my listening session last night, but the O2 Mk1 and HE60 still beat out the orthodynamics for me. If I didn't have the stats I'd still be very happy to play with these orthos on a regular basis. With the proper source and amp the LCD-2 should make many or most people happy, but I don't think it's a "one phone to rule them all" kind of sound (nor is the HE-5 LE).

[mypasswordis]

Odd that you experienced piercing fatiguing sounds when you say the mids and treble are recessed. The mids certainly don't look recessed from the frequency response graphs, maybe you're just not getting the overtones to back up the mids, which is what I always feel about dark headphones. This thing really sounds like it needs a layer of felt to smack it into shape.

[Smeggy]

I can't say I've ever found them in the least fatiguing sonically. Smooth as a babys bottom that has been spit shined by a marine drill sergeant. They are a little dark sounding but not in a bad way IMO. I think Larrys ears are broken and need to go to the shop for repair

[HeadphoneAddict]

Odd that you experienced piercing fatiguing sounds when you say the mids and treble are recessed. The mids certainly don't look recessed from the frequency response graphs, maybe you're just not getting the overtones to back up the mids, which is what I always feel about dark headphones. This thing really sounds like it needs a layer of felt to smack it into shape.

It was a resonation in the lower mids that was getting to me with certain instruments. Since the LCD-2 are so flat from 20Hz - 1Khz, when you turn up the volume to get the upper mids and treble to a normal volume, then you also get a big bump in the lower mids with the LCD-2. That's right in the range of the piano (I think A below middle C is 440Hz).

Like I said, changing the source to CDP-8 or using PWD > ZDT was a big improvement in this problem, and then they do sound like a high end phone.

[mypasswordis]

A above middle C is 440Hz. Well, it can be. There's an allowed range and different people have different preferences. Not sure what you mean by 'and then they do sound like a high end phone' but uh, I guess that's good? Resonance in low frequencies = needs damping.

[n3rdling]

I would say the LCD-2 are the closest I've heard to a dynamic or "non-stat" version of the O2 Mk1

I agree with this. Can't say much more yet since I just got them earlier this week though.

[mypasswordis]

You can't ignore his girth.

[swt61]

I resemble that remark.

[shellylh]

Glad to see your spirits are up Steve.

[HeadphoneAddict]

A above middle C is 440Hz. Well, it can be. There's an allowed range and different people have different preferences. Not sure what you mean by 'and then they do sound like a high end phone' but uh, I guess that's good? Resonance in low frequencies = needs damping.

Thanks, I knew 440Hz had something to do with an A near a C note.

As for the other issue, it was simply that the resonances in my ears were making the experience a mid-fi one (unrelated to price).

I've developed some antibiotic induced tinnitus, and some IEM would also cause some notes to resonate in my ears with pianos, notably the Freq Show customs and Image X10 (which I reported in my impressions at the time). So this was the same kind of experience that I had with my initial LCD-2 listening, but improved by changing out the source. I thought maybe the issue was unique to my messed up ears, however, a couple of other people on head-fi just reported similar issues that improved when they switched sources.

[Solude]

For those experiencing the resonance... original grill or the updated A one?

[swt61]

There's an updated grill?

[mypasswordis]

I can't find the pic right now, but yes there's an updated "A" grille which provides more structural integrity so it doesn't ring when you tap it. There's also an update to the headband, I think they're putting leather on top of the foam now or something.

Also it looks like Audeze are trying to up the treble, from the measurement graphs people are posting. But it's more the upper than lower treble.

Edit: kwkarth is really being a fucking douche in the ortho thread. Bitch don't know shit.

Edited August 13, 2010 by mypasswordis

[Nebby]

I was having difficulty figuring out what was true in the ortho thread, so knowing that helps a bit.

[mypasswordis]

I don't know what his intentions are, but it just seems like he read a couple pages in the ortho thread, declared himself the king of orthos, and then started trying to talk down or start fights with everyone. But we already knew he's a fucking douche. And if it's a fight he wants, he's going to get one.

[dcpoor]

he has a LCD-2 and a Schiit Asgard, that does make him the King of Orthos rite?

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Also it looks like Audeze are trying to up the treble, from the measurement graphs people are posting. But it's more the upper than lower treble.

Just for fun, I've taken the latest graph posted from that long thread over there (the thick line) and put my graph on top (the two thin lines). Are they that different really?

(The graphs aren't perfectly alingned, instead of aligning the background grid, I tried to align the measurement lines.)

(I hope they use the same scale... don't have my printed graph around to double check...)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3475[/ATTACH]

[mypasswordis]

Are you sure you overlaid them well? Seems a bit off. But otherwise you're right, it does look quite similar. Lemme try digging up some graphs as well, I could be wrong.

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Here I have aligned the background grid instead of the measurement lines. But then it's harder to compare the graphs, because the thick line (the line for the newer LCD-2) is a bit higher up on the graph than my two lines. Overlaid like this it just looks like the newer LCD-2 measures a tiny bit louder overall....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3476[/ATTACH]

[mypasswordis]

From that, you can see the bass is 1-2 dB greater but the treble is more like 2-3dB. Not a big difference, I agree.

I know there are at least a few more graphs out there but I spent a seemingly endless amount of time (10 minutes?) trying to find them. But here is the original Audeze graph:

Icarium's:

The newest one (which you have above):

[mypasswordis]

I just realized you have to be logged into HF to view these... pics downloaded for future reference.

[Solude]

Originally Posted by kwkarth

I did say that 810mW was underpowered for the LCD-2 to sound it's best, but I never said that 2W was overkill at all. Someone else may have said that. I recommended the 2W option for the Woo amp. The 810mW output is too little to properly power the AKG K702 as well. If you don't believe me, you can come over and have a listen for yourself.

Wow, just wow

[spritzer]

Shit for brains barely covers kw's level of stupidity...

[Nebby]

From what I understand, the amount of power output by an amp is only a small part of the amp's quality, right? But the AKG's have a max input power rating of 200mW so by definition wouldn't be 810mW be more than enough strictly in terms of wattage?