Parafeed Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 My pictures of the zanadeux are the one with the tube sockets on the top of the chassis, so that you can't see anything. I have other pictures just can't find them. Craig will tell the truth. Pictures have nothing to do with this. ;-) I own a Zana Deux. I have drawn the circuit diagram. I have measured all voltages. I know for a fact that both filaments are powered on this unit. As to whether Craig may have only used one filament per 6C33 on units prior to or later than serial number 38, sure, ask Craig. Both heaters are wired on my unit. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 You stating it doesn't make it a fact, even if you've verified it for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 You stating it doesn't make it a fact, even if you've verified it for yourself. True, but neither is KG's statement, right. Also, by that logic, asking Craig does not make it a fact, regardless of his answer. Wow, now my head is spinning, reminds of the pissing matches between cladists and evolutionary phylogeneticists in the bad-old-days. I need a beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Yes, but Craig and Kevin have track records. Kevin's an ass, but he knows his shit. Yes, he sometimes makes mistakes. And well, Craig is honest to a fault, and has said that he runs the tubes at lower power for heat reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Yes, but Craig and Kevin have track records. Kevin's an ass, but he knows his shit. Yes, he sometimes makes mistakes. And well, Craig is honest to a fault, and has said that he runs the tubes at lower power for heat reasons. Kevin made the initial assertion of fact, apparently without enough backing evidence. He has the onus to support his assertion. I'm more inclined to believe the person with the amp in front of them. After all, Kevin may been sent another bad picture. It would be nice if Parafeed would publish a good picture though. However, why should he ask Craig when he has the amp in front of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Ken, can you tell how a socket is wired with an amp in front of you, but the amp closed up? I can't. I'd trust Craig before I'd trust an assertion from someone I don't know. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Kevin made the initial assertion of fact, apparently without enough backing evidence. I have the evidence, i just have not found it yet. I have crap stashed on at least 11 different computers. If i had some kind of organizational system it would make things easier. Next lifetime. I've asked craig in an email to clarify. Will see what he responds with. Since he is the one that builds and sells the things, it would make sense that his word would be the gold standard on this issue. I personally run 6c33's at full blast. And it warms the room in the winter. It would be possible to run the 2 filaments either in series or parallel (parallel would be prefered for this) and then run them at reduced voltage, say 8 volts. Not sure that this would be a good thing for the tubes however. This is the quote from craig's website --Conservatively operated vacuum tubes. Source output resistance 12 ohms. Will drive hundreds of feet of line level cable. Pretty sure that this is what he said on head-fi about it at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Speaking of 6c33's... That's a mono amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Ken, can you tell how a socket is wired with an amp in front of you, but the amp closed up? I can't. I'd trust Craig before I'd trust an assertion from someone I don't know. Simple as that. Parafeed said that he's drawn out the circuit. That means that he's opened the amp. But it's not really a matter of trust. Please see below. I have the evidence, i just have not found it yet. I have crap stashed on at least 11 different computers. If i had some kind of organizational system it would make things easier. Next lifetime. I've asked craig in an email to clarify. Will see what he responds with. Since he is the one that builds and sells the things, it would make sense that his word would be the gold standard on this issue. I personally run 6c33's at full blast. And it warms the room in the winter. It would be possible to run the 2 filaments either in series or parallel (parallel would be prefered for this) and then run them at reduced voltage, say 8 volts. Not sure that this would be a good thing for the tubes however. This is the quote from craig's website Pretty sure that this is what he said on head-fi about it at the time. I won't be surprised at all to find that you are correct. On the other hand, I also won't be surprised if maybe you are misremembering. I don't mean to imply anything else. When one states an assertion as fact, the onus is on that person to offer enough backing information. You are now searching for it and have emailed Craig. Soon you will have the backing information. I also know that you have the integrity to retract the statement if what you find doesn't match your memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Speaking of 6c33's... I remember those things. 750 watts of pure heat per channel. The only thing worse is a pair of vtl wotan monoblocks at 1000 watts of pure heat per channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blubliss Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 here is bluebliss in action Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - View Single Post - Where is Singlepower? Where is Mikhail? and again Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - View Single Post - Where is Singlepower? Where is Mikhail? mikhail can say whatever he wants. The filament supply for the output tubes has to be rewired as a seperate circuit and referenced to B-. Everything you are describing is due to cathode leaking because Vk is significantly greater than 100 volts. 99% of intermittent performance can be traced to this major problem. The more mikhail continues to apply spin instead of fixing the problem the longer this will continue. Yes, i did freak out a bit in that thread and was quite upset. However, I am pretty sure it was actually a bad tube since I have run XF2s now successfully. But i am sure I could be wrong and you right. I have no technical knowledge to understand these issues. I am not saying that you are wrong Kevin, just wanting solid proof before fact is stated. You are respected so people listen. When/If you find problems i will certainly be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 I remember those things. 750 watts of pure heat per channel. The only thing worse is a pair of vtl wotan monoblocks at 1000 watts of pure heat per channel. Sounds like I could use a pair up here. I could argue that they are in fact used for heating and get a discount on the electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 you are taking tubes that are rated at 100 volts and pushing them to 350 volts. Some are going to take it, some are not going to take it. Some may take it, but have a very shortened lifetime. Where is the damm transporter when you need one. Economy air shipping from (xxxxx) but clearly over the pond takes too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 I remember those things. 750 watts of pure heat per channel. The only thing worse is a pair of vtl wotan monoblocks at 1000 watts of pure heat per channel. The worst I've seen and felt (the heat) are these giant Wavestream tube monoblocks. I have no idea what the specs were, but the entire sound room was quite warm when these were running. I "experienced" them at the Analog Room in San Jose, CA in 1996. The setup sounded wonderful but was much more than I was willing to spend. Besides, I didn't need a new heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penger Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 I would say that he misspoke in this case. Even if he's still running the 6SN7 heater off of the original, chassis mounted trafo you still don't have anywhere near the current capacity that you need for the 6528s. That's ignoring the previously mentioned heat issue as well. I guess at least I never tried running 6528s... I have no idea how the amp started its life, just that I received it in Sept. of last year. And... are you saying that I bought a 14 amp transformer that doesn't actually put out that much? (Please excuse my lack of knowledge.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Hehehehe, a friend of mine purchased the Joule Electra VZN-100 monoblocks: He sold them one month later for his cannot standing the heat into his room. Sound was lovely, but not even listening in shorts and T-shirt it was possible to stay there for more than 10-15 minutes and not being completely wet in sweat. Their VZN-220 monoblocks really scare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Yes, but Craig and Kevin have track records. Kevin's an ass, but he knows his shit. Yes, he sometimes makes mistakes. And well, Craig is honest to a fault, and has said that he runs the tubes at lower power for heat reasons. I understand that, and that is how we all work. However, the result is that you do not end up with facts but fact1 by definition A, fact 1 by definition B, etc. In this case I would actually trust the person with the actual amp in front of them. I see a low probability that they are lying or misrepresenting as I cannot see what they would have to gain. Additional information would lead credence, but if it is a choice between the person with the amp and someone, anyone, rely on a conversation or piece of information they may have read somewhere, sometime ... survey says: Person with the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted September 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 And... are you saying that I bought a 14 amp transformer that doesn't actually put out that much? (Please excuse my lack of knowledge.) If that term (14A) is supposed to describe the external power supply only I don't see how it could be considered 14 amp. As it is wired it's a 6.3V/8A power supply, maybe he's counting something inside the chassis as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 If that term (14A) is supposed to describe the external power supply only I don't see how it could be considered 14 amp. As it is wired it's a 6.3V/8A power supply, maybe he's counting something inside the chassis as well? The Plitron or the 14A transformer is inside the main chassis. You can see the IEC connector and the wires going to the xformer in the 4th picture. At least that is my understanding and is what Mikhail described when I talked with him about the external p/s upgrade. Sorry, I wasn't bright enough to ask exactly what the Plitron and what the external p/s would supply after that. I'll know to ask before doing it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Here is the first answer back from craig, which did not answer my question, so i will try again. 220V on top a 300 ohm plate resistor. 1K cathode resistor, 120mA. That leaves 64V across the tube for 7.68 watts of plate dissipation. Considerably less than half rated power. The external transformer in the picture is a 6.3 volt 8 amp transformer and is obviously the low voltage supply. That is NOT a 14 amp transformer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 If he's simply using the 8A transformer to supplement the filament winding on the Plitron then the 14A figure would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 If he's simply using the 8A transformer to supplement the filament winding on the Plitron then the 14A figure would make sense. He started out using a Plitron in the Platinum Extremes. At some point, he switched to the "14A xformer". So they are similar, but separate things. I don't know the rating of the Plitron for sure, but I seem to remember that it's 20A and Earl also thought that in this thread. I do remember that it was a downgrade when SP went from the Plitron to the 14A xformer. My (very limited) understanding is that 20A is not enough for 6528s, so I don't see how having an external p/s would allow it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Each 6528 needs 5A of heater current so 14A should be enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Each 6528 needs 5A of heater current so 14A should be enough... 14 amps is plenty like Spitzer said. I looked at the pic and that is obviously an 8 amp unit. He has used an outboard supply as a supplement before .... so to drive 6528s that has to be what he is doing. From what I have been told all of his newer outboard supplies do the high voltage and the main transformer on the amp does the heaters. That is how my Extreme is supposed to be setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 and the correct answer is... All four filaments are hooked in series to 24VAC. So I am INCORRECT. Each filament is run at about 94% of rated power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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