luvdunhill Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 it's number of clicks + 1. Dusty++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) Whatever -- I think his point was that it's not number of clicks, it's number of clicks + 1. You think? Edited April 7, 2009 by guzziguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 If anybody wants to continue the earpad debate then there is no problem for me to cut open the SR-404 earpads I just ripped off a set and open up the SR-007A/Mk2 pads I just got. Any takers...? Anyways, since I had this SR-404 open I thought it was time to find out why the hell this headphones sounds like crap. The drivers are excellent in the SR-Sigma 404 and the 4070 is no slouch either. I put on my detective cap and I think I might have located the issue though it will take some days to prove it. \ It appears that in an effort to save money (or just to annoy me), Stax have stopped gluing the metal protection grill to the drivers with urethane (or what ever it is they use) and just use double sided tape instead. The metal grill isn't really part of the driver but added on afterwards (with the other dust cover on the flip side). It has always been glued with liquid glue, even on the Sigmas. What Stax have done now is simplified the driver design so they are identical on each side then just use some adhesive and mount the grill on that. The adhesive is pure crap as the earpads mounted with it will drift in place over the years and the drivers on this set aren't straight as they should be. This makes perfect sense as the Sigma drivers are mounted backwards so the metal grill is just for decoration and not used to mount the drivers. Therefore the crappy adhesive has no bearing on the SQ and the Sigma 404's shine. I will try to confirm this theory by gluing the drivers and see if they turn out to be something better then they are now. One caveat though. This set is very old so things might have changed. If the experiment works then I'll buy a new set to verify. Yeah, but notice that wasn't his plan. Ahhhh!!!! But my plan is to annoy Michael as much as I can. :palm: however, now I somehow start to doubt the existence of the Mafia.. I mean, shouldn't I be dead now? Maybe there aren't enough capodecina around. Anyways, I'm getting close to being able to include two rather interesting prototypes, so perhaps the wait is justified. You are on the safe to mess up list so all is good. I do remember we were waiting for something but I can't remember what that was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggeh Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Me fully content with my rig?? I don't think that will ever happen... The BH I'm building could edge out the BHSE (at least on paper with S22 for the +/-15v, upgraded PSU with massive Plitrons, all silver wiring etc.) but only prolonged head-to-head testing will determine that. I've got a bunch of free time after I graduate if you want a second opinion on that. I'll bring the beer. If anybody wants to continue the earpad debate then there is no problem for me to cut open the SR-404 earpads I just ripped off a set and open up the SR-007A/Mk2 pads I just got. Any takers...? I'd rather buy them off you for the AMTsellotapeheadphone. Cut open the pads on those limited edition -404s if you want to do some particularly probing pleather properties penetration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I've got a bunch of free time after I graduate if you want a second opinion on that. I'll bring the beer. I would even start drinking again for something like that. I'd rather buy them off you for the AMTsellotapeheadphone. Cut open the pads on those limited edition -404s if you want to do some particularly probing pleather properties penetration. The pads are pretty beat up but I can send them out to you if you want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 SR-SC1 Airbow set on a Japanese auction: Translated version of http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f79079105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Anyways, since I had this SR-404 open I thought it was time to find out why the hell this headphones sounds like crap. The drivers are excellent in the SR-Sigma 404 and the 4070 is no slouch either. I put on my detective cap and I think I might have located the issue though it will take some days to prove it. \ It appears that in an effort to save money (or just to annoy me), Stax have stopped gluing the metal protection grill to the drivers with urethane (or what ever it is they use) and just use double sided tape instead. The metal grill isn't really part of the driver but added on afterwards (with the other dust cover on the flip side). It has always been glued with liquid glue, even on the Sigmas. What Stax have done now is simplified the driver design so they are identical on each side then just use some adhesive and mount the grill on that. The adhesive is pure crap as the earpads mounted with it will drift in place over the years and the drivers on this set aren't straight as they should be. This makes perfect sense as the Sigma drivers are mounted backwards so the metal grill is just for decoration and not used to mount the drivers. Therefore the crappy adhesive has no bearing on the SQ and the Sigma 404's shine. I will try to confirm this theory by gluing the drivers and see if they turn out to be something better then they are now. One caveat though. This set is very old so things might have changed. If the experiment works then I'll buy a new set to verify. You have my attention with that find. Nothing like the company screwing with a proven design to save time/money. Good news, it would make many sr-404 owners happier. Bad news, it would spoil the resale value of a lot of vintage Stax gear. I've got both a 202 and a 404 here to play with. I'll have to pull one of them apart next week when I get a chance. Im scheduled to work this weekend:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faust3d Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Anyways, since I had this SR-404 open I thought it was time to find out why the hell this headphones sounds like crap. The drivers are excellent in the SR-Sigma 404 and the 4070 is no slouch either. I put on my detective cap and I think I might have located the issue though it will take some days to prove it. \ It appears that in an effort to save money (or just to annoy me), Stax have stopped gluing the metal protection grill to the drivers with urethane (or what ever it is they use) and just use double sided tape instead. The metal grill isn't really part of the driver but added on afterwards (with the other dust cover on the flip side). It has always been glued with liquid glue, even on the Sigmas. What Stax have done now is simplified the driver design so they are identical on each side then just use some adhesive and mount the grill on that. The adhesive is pure crap as the earpads mounted with it will drift in place over the years and the drivers on this set aren't straight as they should be. This makes perfect sense as the Sigma drivers are mounted backwards so the metal grill is just for decoration and not used to mount the drivers. Therefore the crappy adhesive has no bearing on the SQ and the Sigma 404's shine. I will try to confirm this theory by gluing the drivers and see if they turn out to be something better then they are now. One caveat though. This set is very old so things might have changed. If the experiment works then I'll buy a new set to verify. This is very interesting as I like my SR-303 and I never heard this extreme etch that others were describing, maybe it's because they changed the glue on the driver? I bought my pair brand new about a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 SR-SC1 Airbow set on a Japanese auction: Translated version of http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f79079105 Brilliant headphone but I'd rather have the ESP950. \ You have my attention with that find. Nothing like the company screwing with a proven design to save time/money. Good news, it would make many sr-404 owners happier. Bad news, it would spoil the resale value of a lot of vintage Stax gear. I've got both a 202 and a 404 here to play with. I'll have to pull one of them apart next week when I get a chance. Im scheduled to work this weekend:mad: They might have done it to get a certain sound but it could also just be a way to make the drivers cheaper to make. I'm leaning more towards the latter... As for the resale value, the older units each have a sound of their own so if the SR-303/404 could be made better they would just be another version of that sound. This mod will also not be easy to pull off and certainly not for the faint of heart. This is very interesting as I like my SR-303 and I never heard this extreme etch that others were describing, maybe it's because they changed the glue on the driver? I bought my pair brand new about a year ago. I'm sure that they have changed the adhesive (the old one is black and the new one is translucent) but the new one isn't much better as it creates the same type of sticky mess as the old. I much prefer adhesives that make a solid bond with no mess. I've had a couple of new SR-404's here in the last year or so and I heard the dreaded etch but I didn't exam the drivers closely. I only picked up on this as the drivers in this old set aren't perfectly aligned (the adhesive "creeps" with age so the parts move about) and I try to see if it was intentional or not. I'm working crazy hours this weekend but I'll try to take a few pics and glue the drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faust3d Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Are you getting the new limited SR-404? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Are you getting the new limited SR-404? Yup, was there ever any doubt that I could pass on a new Stax headphone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggeh Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Depends on if they repeat the Alpherio or whatever it was called and go all dynamic on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Boy, some DIY guy I am. But I got one housing open on the 202's. Same two sided sticky tape. You can see some of it on the inside mounting plate. I hope the rest of the assembly is glued. The inside charged pieces look glued, but I cant tell if the screen that faces the plate is glued or sticky taped to the driver assembly. I'll wait for daylight to look. Do I need to wipe off everything and white glove it on re-assembly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) The BHSE is so far ahead of the ES-1 in terms of design that it's not even funny. And the build quality and workmanship of Justin's builds is so far ahead of Mikhail's it's not even funny. Of course, I've never heard the BHSE and have extremely limited impressions with the ES-1 so I can't comment on sound. Couldn't you ask Justin if it's possible to put in a 45 step attenuator? My order for a BHSE included the RK50 option. The dual 45-step attenuators were one of the upgrades made to the ES-1 when I sent it in. They are supposedly Shallco. After using these the Aristaeus' stepped attenuator seems a bit inadequate. I agree that HeadAmp's build quality and design seems very good. But ultimately for me, it's how happy I am with the amp overall which includes how it sounds (subjective impressions) as well as how it fits into my usage requirements (size, features, appearance, etc. The thing is, I'm very happy with both the ES-1 and Aristaeus. Sure, I think the ES-1 could be smaller sized. As for build quality, I'm not sure. I only know it has worked fine so far and sounds very good. If it's a bad design, has bad parts or crappy wiring/soldering and will break one day, that day hasn't arrived yet. how are you counting? if you start all the way to the left, that counts as the first step. Then after 1 click, that's the second step, and so on... You are right. I'm counting the clicks and forgot to count the first starting step. Apparently some elephants can't count, this is embarrassing. Edited April 9, 2009 by Elephas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Depends on if they repeat the Alpherio or whatever it was called and go all dynamic on you. I'd still buy it. I even have the amp to drive them now after I got my Gilmore Lite with the dedicated PSU. Boy, some DIY guy I am. But I got one housing open on the 202's. Same two sided sticky tape. You can see some of it on the inside mounting plate. I hope the rest of the assembly is glued. The inside charged pieces look glued, but I cant tell if the screen that faces the plate is glued or sticky taped to the driver assembly. I'll wait for daylight to look. Do I need to wipe off everything and white glove it on re-assembly? All the Stax phones have the drivers mounted with double sided tape. I'm going to try and find some time today to open up the drivers and start the glue process (takes 24 hours). To reassemble you can use the old adhesive but I would use some new one. The old one should be easy enough to scrape off with your fingers. If it's a bad design, has bad parts or crappy wiring/soldering and will break one day, that day hasn't arrived yet. You really should open up the ES-1 and take some pics so that we can verify what could be a potential issue and how it should be fixed. It would be a shame to see the amp chew up and spit out all those nice output tubes I've sent you. \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Happy day, happy happy day today! I got a bit tired of Rihanna - Umbrella (Remixes) after listening to them for over forty times. But I found a worthy substitute, and I'm listening to them now! SR-007Mk2 earpads caressing my ears. Driven by 2x Sylvania 5751W triple mica black plates, 2x Sylvania VT-231, 4x Mullard xf1 in the ES-1. ALAC > iTunes > RME > Esoteric D-05, word clocked at 176.4kHz. The songs? Rihanna - Take A Bow (Remixes)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faust3d Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Poor Stax headphones and triple mica black plates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 triple mica black plates Yeah, why are these Sylvania 5751 so expensive and hard to find? I've tried some Gold Brand, some also with gold pins, some with regular pins, some black plates and some gray plates. They're all good, as long as they have the triple mica. I like the ones that also have black plates the most, and without gold pins. I've also tried some non-triple mica green lettering types and Gold brand that were apparently made later, in the 70's and maybe even early 80's. They're good, too, and also match very well with the O2Mk1 and O2Mk2, but not quite as good as the older ones. I think the old ones have very good details, soundstage, notes separation, and imaging precision, which enhances the O2's strengths and minimizes its weaknesses (smallish soundstage, a bit dark). I've found that with some other types of tubes, the O2's even become a bit muddy and blurry, losing the definition and crispness of each note. Ugh. These old Sylvania 5751 work great in the Aristaeus and ES-1. I also have 12AX7 types that I like, but it seems that nothing can compete with the old Sylvania 5751 in terms of soundstage, details and the clarity of each individual note. I guess I'm very late to the game and demand is so high because everyone have already realized they are high quality tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I guess I'm very late to the game and demand is so high because everyone have already realized they are high quality tubes. It's a conspiracy against elephants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I thought that was just me...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) New Rule No one shall bid on any of the following. Actually, the rule is that you can't bid against me, but since there's no way to be sure, just refrain from bidding at all, thank you, much appreciated, elephants and your wallet will thank you. 5751 Sylvania (any type) EL34 Mullard xf1 and xf2 EL34 Telefunken Ulm-made 5 crimped plates EL34 Philips, Mullard, Telefunken metal base (to be safe, include any kind of metal base) 6SN7W Sylvania (both regular black base and metal base) 6SN7GT Tung-Sol round plates black glass ECC83 Telefunken, Mullard (50's thru 60's, including ECC803S and 10M Series) Edited April 15, 2009 by Elephas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 There are things to make your life easier, switch out the ECC83's for some other similar tubes and install loctal sockets in your amps so that you can use 7n7's instead of 6SN7's. I wouldn't even consider putting octal sockets for the two first stages on the ES-1/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Now you tell me. So what am I going to do with all these 5751, ECC83 and 6SN7 tubes? But, at least I can use the 5751 or ECC83 in the Aristaeus too. Double duty is good. I've read about substituting 7N7 for 6SN7 with an adapter, but there doesn't seem to be many 7N7 types. Also, I'm scared to use a 3rd party adapter in the ES-1 and then having something break, it'll complicate things even though I'll probably find someone local to fix it. Yes, I paid way too much for those SP adapters, but it's all right, at least if something goes wrong SP can't blame something else. So, can the BHSE with only four tubes be better than the ES-1 with eight or the A-10 with nine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 So, can the BHSE with only four tubes be better than the ES-1 with eight or the A-10 with nine? 8 tubes is the magic number I've found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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