TheSloth Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'm really glad to hear they are voiced for moderate listening actually. The 650's to me need to be pushed up a little too high in volume for my liking (concerns about ear safety and comfort). As well as driver optimisations, I'm sure it also relates to those equal loudness curves and all that whatnot. I am still yet to hear the pair of HD800's that I have owned for nearly 2 months now. Just haven't quite been able to get myself and the headphones to be in the same country at the same time. Only 2 weeks to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 This has a bunch of good info on equal loundness issues: Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the end for most equalizations there are certainly "optimum" volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 That is some very interesting stuff. Thank you. I am definitely one of the people who finds the HD800, for all its other virtues, somewhat on the harsh side, particularly in the presentation of vocals. One reason for that, I suspect, is that I like to listen louder than most and the 800s really don't seem to like being cranked up. I guess Senn's sweet spot and my own are a few dB apart. I'm getting more and more curious to hear the 800 with the Menace and see if we can't tube roll it a bit more to your liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 My understanding of what they explained about the headphone driver is that the designer basically has to pick a volume level sweet spot for the headphone. It's impossible for the driver to perform well at all volumes, from barely audible to causing enough pain to make the ears bleed (is this the infamous Ray Samuels-type volume level? ). If there's a range where a driver does best, I would think that maybe some headphones have a larger range than others. Maybe one day we'll be able to order our own customized headphones. Not the useless Beyer manufakur options, I'm thinking customized drivers for one specific listening volume. It would only perform at one volume level, but it would sound perfect. You'll need separate headphones for different volume levels, and change headphones when you want to go higher or lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 They've been doing fine with the ES-1 and Aristaeus, but I'm very curious how the O2's will sound with a BHSE. I'm almost hoping the BHSE will be bad somehow, so I can sell the amp and put the funds toward an HD800 amp. That's probably just wishful thinking. Sure is. The ES-1 is starving them of power to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Oh man, yummm.... I love pyramid apricot. Is there a badge trade-in program? I recently finished the "blueberry ale" that you brought to the last meet at my house - it was a little bitter and slow going, but I didn't want to see it go to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherwood Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I recently finished the "blueberry ale" that you brought to the last meet at my house - it was a little bitter and slow going, but I didn't want to see it go to waste. Yeah... I'm going through a bit of a fruit beer thing. Is there an address where I can send in my man card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 cue Dusty w/ MOAR BLACK...(ears perk up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Sure is. The ES-1 is starving them of power to say the least. Um, yay? That's great news!? I probably didn't do a good job questioning the Senn people. I'm just a small timid super cool baby elephant after all. Imagining what some of you might say or ask them was quite entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Sure is. The ES-1 is starving them of power to say the least. Ummm ... given the variance among ES-1's (since they are hand-built ) that statement seems a bit, umm silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 There is next to no variance when it comes to the basic circuit. They are all sitting at a -100VDC offset which severely limits the output voltage. Remove it and the amp has promise. The basic Stax circuit was specced at 0-5VDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 There is next to no variance when it comes to the basic circuit. They are all sitting at a -100VDC offset which severely limits the output voltage. Remove it and the amp has promise. The basic Stax circuit was specced at 0-5VDC. The assumption there is that he actually followed the basic circuit. I'm not so sure that is a great assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Given the evidence gathered from quite a few amps (including the one Elephas has) via detailed internal pics he never strayed that far from the original schematic. The resistors used were almost never the same between two amps and a lot of series/parallel stuff going on but since he appears to have bought a lot of stuff cheap from surplus sales that makes sense. The use of filament transformers a main transformers is the result of him finding a bunch of them for next to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 That's fine, I just prefer never to underestimate the absolute futility of painting a picture about anything to do with Mikhail using anything resembling logic as part of the palette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherwood Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 So the idea that he somehow stumbled upon something worthwhile makes sense to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphsci Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 So the idea that he somehow stumbled upon something worthwhile makes sense to you? Well if you got that from what I said then we may be able to use you as a translator of Mikhailese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherwood Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I mean, we do live right next to each other. Perhaps its elk pee in the water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Forgot to mention, there is an SRM-T2 in my country, which might be for sale in the future. About the price, I only know that it's 'not cheap' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 All right, here's what we can do, we = the other SP ES-1 owners reading this. How about we all send our amps to KG? We cover our own two-way shipping charges of course, and parts costs, maybe include a bottle of Scotch too. He'll work on the amps like crazy while drinking the Scotch and fix them all up for us, better than new. I don't have a lot of experience with amps, and I don't know anything about electronics. I can make some comparisons with my other amps, though, an Aristaeus and Zana Deux. The ES-1 as it is now sounds excellent to me and I prefer it over the Aristaeus, except when using the HE90 where I like both amps. I prefer several electrostats driven by the ES-1 over almost all dynamics driven by the Zana Deux. I'm sure many people have heard the ZD and know how well it does driving Grados, AT's, K701, HD650 or HD800. I have a lot of tubes for all three amps, and admittedly the most effort has gone to the ES-1 tubes, but I don't think the other two amps are complaining. So if my ES-1 is somehow not a good amp, I'm curious what a good one sounds like. I do have a BHSE on order, so maybe I'll find out soon. If the ES-1 wasn't designed properly or there are other issues such as reliability, I appreciate all the efforts to find out and fix it. If it can be improved, I'll be very happy and maybe will also be able to happily sell off a lot of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 So the idea that he somehow stumbled upon something worthwhile makes sense to you? If he did stumble onto something worthwhile then he fucked it up royally with sheer stupidity and recklessness. Almost every part is right on the limit if you are lucky or far over it as is often the case. Then we have the horrible build quality of even the "good" units. All wires on top of each other with no support at all. A single 4" wire may even have up to 3 pieces of wire connected together and then heatshrinked for some unknown reason. Forgot to mention, there is an SRM-T2 in my country, which might be for sale in the future. About the price, I only know that it's 'not cheap' When you know more, please drop me a PM. So if my ES-1 is somehow not a good amp, I'm curious what a good one sounds like. I do have a BHSE on order, so maybe I'll find out soon. If the ES-1 wasn't designed properly or there are other issues such as reliability, I appreciate all the efforts to find out and fix it. If it can be improved, I'll be very happy and maybe will also be able to happily sell off a lot of gear. A bad amp is something like the HEV70, E.90, 313 or the A-10, the rest all have some merit. In its stock form the ES-1 simply lacks the power it should have so the bass is too loose, the midrange too recessed and the top end rolled off. The soundstage suffers too and lacks a lot of the forward projection it is capable of. Removing the offset takes care of most of that but the sound is still a bit loose and when you push the amp hard, audible distortion shows its ugly head. There is a fix for that but I just have to install it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSloth Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 A bad amp is something like the HEV70, E.90, 313 or the A-10, the rest all have some merit. In its stock form the ES-1 simply lacks the power it should have so the bass is too loose, the midrange too recessed and the top end rolled off. The soundstage suffers too and lacks a lot of the forward projection it is capable of. Removing the offset takes care of most of that but the sound is still a bit loose and when you push the amp hard, audible distortion shows its ugly head. There is a fix for that but I just have to install it. Doesn't he have an Aristaeus? I never owned electrostats, so I'm not completely with what is good and what is not, but I thought the Aristaeus was an absolutely top drawer headphone amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Yes, I also have an Aristaeus, it's better with the HE90 or SR-Omega than the O2mk1 or O2mk2. If my ES-1 isn't a good amp, and I'm open to the possibility, then the Aristaeus isn't one either. Wasn't there some ES-1 and ES-2 amps at CanJam 2009? And a BHSE? Along with lots of HD800 with many dynamic amps. True, it was meet conditions, but I would expect people there to be able to at least make a simple assessment of the amps, as well as the HD800 versus many electrostats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopstretch Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 No one is insulting your baby elephant ears, so no need to flap them. It's demonstrably true that some of Mikhail's stuff sounds good despite his, ah, eccentric design choices. Voltron's SDS-XLR, for example, was absolutely kicking ass at CanJam with the HD800s. And now, of course, it's gone boom bye-bye. And then, oddly, Andy's SDS-XLR didn't do much with the Senns at the same event. Tube variation? Design variation? Different vodka consumed during build process? Who knows. Point is, Singlepower stuff is a crapshoot to both operate and evaluate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 One thing our crazy baby elephant should note, I'm fairly sure you prefer the more "audiophile sound" of AC-coupled amps rather then the brutal honesty of DC-coupled units such as the BHSE. You may like the extra power when listening to Umbrella remixes at silly volumes but the BHSE will show you just how much crap they are. Doesn't he have an Aristaeus? I never owned electrostats, so I'm not completely with what is good and what is not, but I thought the Aristaeus was an absolutely top drawer headphone amp? For the HE90 that may be the case (never heard one but I should get the PCB's to build my own one day) but it lacks the sheer overkill of the BH amps i.e. larger tubes, more voltage, more current etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopstretch Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Back to the 800s. I am really digging them off the HP4 right now. There's a certain coloration that isn't there with the dead neutral GS-1 and it has a slightly smoothing effect, which I like. This is with the stock tubes. I have some 6SU7GTY coming in that, by repute, will take things even further in that direction. I find I also like them more driven off the amp's Lo-Z taps, which seems to plump up the bass. Could be complete bollocks and sonic self-delusion, of course.* (* I did email Tim de Paravicini to ask what the respective output impedances were and he rather ducked the question, but did say the amp has a damping factor of around 12, for what that's worth.) Edited July 12, 2009 by Hopstretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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